Did Tolkien not now what to do with this character?

Did Tolkien not now what to do with this character?

>make tragic character
>gets redemption
>goes back to being what he was and worse

He wasn't redeemed, he was always a crazy little sperglord.

That's what always happens with addicts irl

he ended up getting the ring destroyed anyway buddy

The captcha literally took a full minute to process and I didn't get the first response as a result. I'm through with lord of the rings threads. Fuck this shit.

Yeah it was poorly thought out, but Tolkien inst exactly known for his writing.

What was Tolkien known for?

That's what makes him such a tragic figure, you get this sense he can be redeemed only to see him destroyed.

What redemption, you fucking retard? What actual, serious, literal redemption? Answer me you pathetic cuck.

>tolkein wasted years responding to retarded shit like this.

How many books could he have written if not for autistic retards?

dubs

The entire point was he was an addict who knew he had a problem but in the end the craving won.

World building.

>implying that's some sort of outlandish character development that doesn't happen all the time
literally what

Describing trees for 20 pages

He's also a great writer. Don't know why it's become a meme to pretend like he isnt. His sentences are impeccable.

t. postgraduate writing student

>drove Gollum, his evil split personality, out of his psyche
>oh wait no he's back and now Smeagol is 100% on board with what he does

>addicts

You guys should know Tolkien hated analogies.

see

the word you were looking for was "allegories", not analogies

He could have been fully redeemed if not for Sam's constant bullying.
Sam was a jealous villain.

Wasn't the redemption of Smeagol an invention of the movie? It'd explain why it's kind of a weird plot line that doesn't go anywhere

>drove Gollum, his evil split personality, out of his psyche

Oh, really? Prove it. Literally, actually, completely and unequivocally prove it, definitively with absolutely no way to disprove it or argue against.

I'll wait, even though I already know you can't, lol

People who say that have probably never read the books. His descriptions are hardly lengthy, just vivid.

If you want to see actual lengthy descriptions read Melville or McCarthy.

>Tolkien hated analogies
No, my stupid and misinformed friend, Tolkien claimed to hate allegories, not analogies.

So a tragic character. What's wrong with that? And he also showed what the ring could do long term and how strong the hold was.

go away gollum

>He could have been fully redeemed if not for Sam's constant bullying.
>Sam was a jealous villain.
They had to do something because if it wasn't for how he treated Gollum he's basically a perfect character with no flaws.

That's my point, you illiterate fucking retard. He drove him out of his psyche (Gollum vs Smeagol conversation) just to have Gollum come back and fuck it all up.

>t. postgraduate writing student

he had to be somewhat redeemed so frodo could trust him enough to follow him around
the other reason was frodo wanted to "prove" smeagul could redeem himself. frodo needed to know that even after getting corrupted by the ring, he could still be good. this was an actual scene in the movie (cant find it on youtube). sam makes an offhand remark about theres no saving that evil creature, and frodo gets emotional about it

I feel like you wouldn't care even if user had a PhD or even if he was an acclaimed writer that you didn't like.

>he had to be somewhat redeemed so frodo could trust him enough to follow him around
>the other reason was frodo wanted to "prove" smeagul could redeem himself. frodo needed to know that even after getting corrupted by the ring, he could still be good. this was an actual scene in the movie (cant find it on youtube). sam makes an offhand remark about theres no saving that evil creature, and frodo gets emotional about it
Yeah, I definitely remember that scene and understood that in the context of the movie. I just wasn't sure if it was completely a movie invention or if it was something from the books.

In the books Frodo had Gollum swear on the precious to always do the bidding of the master and in his mind he thought up that if he took the precious and became his own master he wouldn't be breaking any oath.

Its the stairs of cyrith ungol chapter in the two towers where gollums repentence fails.

World building

accurate

And so Gollum found them hours later, when he returned, crawling and creeping down the path out of the gloom ahead. Sam sat propped against the stone, his head dropping sideways and his breathing heavy. In his lap lay Frodo’s head, drowned deep in sleep; upon his white forehead lay one of Sam’s brown hands, and the other lay softly upon his master’s breast. Peace was in both their faces.
Gollum looked at them. A strange expression passed over his lean hungry face. The gleam faded from his eyes, and they went dim and grey, old and tired. A spasm of pain seemed to twist him, and he turned away, peering back up towards the pass, shaking his head, as if engaged in some interior debate. Then he came back, and slowly putting out a trembling hand, very cautiously he touched Frodo’s knee – but almost the touch was a caress. For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of youth, an old starved pitiable thing.
But at that touch Frodo stirred and cried out softly in his sleep, and immediately Sam was wide awake. The first thing he saw was Gollum – ‘pawing at master,’ as he thought.

‘Hey you!’ he said roughly. ‘What are you up to?’ ‘Nothing, nothing,’ said Gollum softly. ‘Nice Master!’ ‘I daresay,’ said Sam. ‘But where have you been to – sneaking off and sneaking back, you old villain?’
Gollum withdrew himself, and a green glint flickered under his heavy lids. Almost spider-like he looked now, crouched back on his bent limbs, with his protruding eyes. The fleeting moment had passed, beyond recall. ‘Sneaking, sneaking!’ he hissed. ‘Hobbits always so polite, yes. O nice hobbits! Sméagol brings them up secret ways that nobody else could find. Tired he is, thirsty he is, yes thirsty; and he guides them and he searches for paths, and they say sneak, sneak. Very nice friends, O yes my precious, very nice.’
Sam felt a bit remorseful, though not more trustful. ‘Sorry,’ he said. ‘I’m sorry, but you startled me out of my sleep. And I shouldn’t have been sleeping, and that made me a bit sharp. But Mr. Frodo, he’s that tired, I asked him to have a wink; and well, that’s how it is. Sorry. But where have you been to?’
‘Sneaking,’ said Gollum, and the green glint did not leave his eyes.

and with this at last I see Sup Forums is full of pseuds