can your country guns compete with italian weapons?
Can your country guns compete with italian weapons?
Alexander Phillips
Kayden Brown
Not really, my brother
Adrian Roberts
easily
Liam Brown
coincidence you're here
thank you guys vm for designing our baby for us right here
Josiah Taylor
da
James Turner
memeful gun
Sebastian King
I suppose
Ryan Hughes
>SPAS 12
Aren't those supposed to be shit?
Nathaniel Moore
I thought their drawback was that they were way too expensive
Juan Adams
No one would even know about them if it weren't for films and video games.
Alexander Reyes
their drawback is they are way too heavy and unergonomic compared to any other 12 guage shotgun on the market
cool looking though and bonus points for jurassic park
Isaac Ross
These things are so awesome. One of my friends has one and uses it to hunt wild boars.
Eli Brooks
>can your country guns compete with italian weapons?
easily
Luke Collins
not even the best shotgun you make imo
Jack Martin
>MP5
>the PDW that completely misses the point of PDWs by being as expensive as a full rifle
Jace Miller
>melting rifles
Jackson Morgan
no
Brandon White
quality has a price, many are willing to pay for it
Mason Stewart
Yes
Behold, the knife/pistol
wideopenspaces.com
Angel Long
what's the huge ass thing on the top do
Jaxson Mitchell
>can your country guns compete with italian weapons?
Well, our most prominent weapons manufacturer (SAKO) is owned by spaghettis, so how exactly are we supposed to compete?
SAKO makes top-tier precision rifles, and have in the past made the best AK variant on the market. Picture related, my baby.
Easton Clark
>quality has a price
The MP5 is decent submachine gun, no one is contesting that. But whole reason why you would issue someone a PDW instead of a rifle is because you don't expect them to see heavy combat, and thus do not need to pay the full cost of a heavy combat weapon. The cost of MP5 defeats the role in which it could be useful, so you only really see it being used by forces that have too much money and not enough things to spend it on.
James Rodriguez
it's a stock that folds out
Owen Adams
PDW's niche is to be small and easily manoeuvrable, and so can be issued to troops that aren't expected to see combat. That, and being chambered in a weaker cartridge means they overpenetrate less, and are therefore useful to security details and such individuals who are expected to work in urban environments amidst civillians (who you probably don't want to shoot).
Angel King
SPAS-12 wasn't that reliable, on top of saftey issues they had with early models
basically you had safety lever that if you'd flip to make gun safe, it would fire round in the chamber
>put gun on safe
>it fires itself
Italian guns everybody
but i sure do would love to own one becasue they look fucking cool
also
>Poland
>yes
Austin Russell
no
we are paceful people.
Jackson Watson
>issued to troops that aren't expected to see combat.
They are issued to troops that aren't expected to see combat, but potentially might. There is a reason why they are not simply issued pistols. They need enough fire power to defend themselves against something like an ambush, but they are not expected to do any sustained combat and thus do not need a heavier weapon.
>PDW's niche is to be small and easily manoeuvrable
PDW's niche is to be only as a strong as it needs to be, and thus save on costs. The size is incidental, as less firepower typically means a smaller gun. If it was more cost effective to simply issue such troops a standard service rifle, everyone would simply do that instead.
>That, and being chambered in a weaker cartridge means they overpenetrate less, and are therefore useful to security details and such individuals who are expected to work in urban environments amidst civillians (who you probably don't want to shoot).
Ah, well yes, the MP5 is fairly well suited to that specific. But that's not exactly the same paradigm. Like I said before, armed police and counter-terrorists generally don't have too worry as much about their funding.
Cameron Garcia
VHS-2 is going to be great.
HS is already great.
Nathaniel Young
>They are issued to troops that aren't expected to see combat, but potentially might.
All troops potentially might see combat.
>PDW's niche is to be only as a strong as it needs to be, and thus save on costs.
Cost of small arms is peanuts to armed forces.
>Ah, well yes, the MP5 is fairly well suited to that specific. But that's not exactly the same paradigm. Like I said before, armed police and counter-terrorists generally don't have too worry as much about their funding.
Armed forces do security detail as well, and sometimes work in CT roles.
Grayson Peterson
no we're useless at anything but beer and medicine
Easton Collins
>believing the lying press
Nathan Walker
That's the same thing
Asher Roberts
but the mp5 was before there was a designated concept known as PDW
Ayden Price
>PDWs
But the MP5 is an SMG
>missing the point by being as expensive as a full rifle
user, I...
Adrian Fisher
No best cars, best guns, best food, and best women come from Italy
Jackson Anderson
Meh. Come back when your guns appear on national flags.
James Mitchell
for a continent who hates guns they sure do produce and sell a lot of firearms
Isaiah Smith
Samuel Hall
>But the MP5 is an SMG
There's a bit of overlap between the terms.
Jeremiah Thomas
>All troops potentially might see combat.
Depends on where you draw the line between troop and suport staff.
A soldier will see combat.
A truck driver might.
A nurse at a military hospital won't.
>Cost of small arms is peanuts to armed forces.
For modern western militaries, sure. But that's hardly the whole of the arms market. Even small differences in costs can add up to quite a bit when multiplied by the thousands or tens of thousands, and that has a definite influence on who is willing to buy what.
>Armed forces do security detail as well, and sometimes work in CT roles.
I'll give you that, however.
Gavin Barnes
We have long range bolt action shotguns
Wyatt Brooks
>posts SPAS of all the guns
Isn't it kinda meh?
But no. And no wonder, Beretta is the oldest gun manufacturer in the world.
Evan Peterson
>But the MP5 is an SMG
Essentially all PDW's are holsterable SMG's. I can't think of an example of-hand that isn't one.
Samuel Collins
>and thus do not need to pay the full cost of a heavy combat weapon
>the price of a weapon is determined by the mass of the material used to build it
Evan Flores
>A nurse at a military hospital won't.
Those personnel won't be issued any weapons at all, if they are even soldiers in the first place, so that point is pretty moot.
There have been cases in wars where rear echelon troops have had to pick up arms to beat the enemy back. Example: strangehistory.net
So we agree on that PDWs are useful for such troops, since they're less cumbersome than full-sized rifles but still pack a decent punch for self-defense.
>For modern western militaries, sure. But that's hardly the whole of the arms market. Even small differences in costs can add up to quite a bit when multiplied by the thousands or tens of thousands, and that has a definite influence on who is willing to buy what.
I'm not convinced that cost factors into the decision more than other points to consider. The savings you'd make by purchasing PDWs instead of more assault rifles would amount to barely anything, most certainly not enough to procure anything important, like missiles.
>Essentially all PDW's are holsterable SMG's
That's incorrect. SMGs are chambered in pistol cartridges, while PDWs can be chambered in anything. There's absolutely nothing in the definition of PDW that requries holsterability. How for example would you see FN P90 holstered?
An example of a PDW chambered in an intermediate cartridge:
en.wikipedia.org
Liam Barnes
yes