I can't be the only person who thinks this dude is a bad writer even in Dark Knight Returns and Year One?

I can't be the only person who thinks this dude is a bad writer even in Dark Knight Returns and Year One?

yes you are, you're also a bad person that touches himself at night.

Statistically, you are correct, but you're still a fag.

I thought he was a bad writer. Then I read Champions and Civil War II.

Buuuuuuuuurn

of course your not, but you're objectively wrong and have shit taste

sadly, you're probably not the only one, I'm pretty sure I've seen fuckwits complain about those books before.

Well, I guess I can see them not being for everyone, though if you like Batman and think those books were badly written you probably deserve to be shot for the good of the species

I don't really get how anyone who reads Miller's Batman and Daredevil and Sin City can think he's a bad writer. Being a genre writer no matter how sincerely =/= being a bad writer.

Ouch.

I will admit knowing about the racist lunatic he became has stained his earlier work for me a bit. Especially at the end of DKR.

Why? The creator isn't the work. Shit Holy Terror isn't even a bad comic if you just take it on terms of art.

>the artist's political leaning affects how much I enjoy their work

How pretentious can you get?

Excuse me, my name is, euh, Mr. Rellim (yes, that will do), and I think that Frank Miller fellow is an excellent creator.

Oh yeah, all those abstract art paintings. You can read the book in every direction.

Mr. Rellim? That sounds like a foreign name. Are you perhaps from the Middle East?

>Dark Knight Returns and Year One?
Why is it always Batshit with you people?

I always thought that the appeal of Frank Miller was that his art was groundbreaking at the time in terms of paneling and stuff like that. Of course it doesn't look flashy now because it set the standard that has been followed since then. I never really cared for his writing, didn't like TDKR, thought Ronin was a massive waste of potential and a chore to read and never bothered with Sin City.

Islam isn't a race.
It used to be okay for lefties to hate on religions.
Also he was a HRC supporter.

Oh, cancer put him in his place. He voted for Hillary and everything.

No, technically speaking, Islam isn't a race, but when Sikhs and Middle Eastern Christians get beaten or worse for being Muslims it doesn't take a genius to figure out why.

Disliking religion isn't the same as hating religious people, or wanting to forbid religion.

Yeah, but I still prefer him over Alan Moore.

The guy who hexed Miller into a cancer victim?

NIGGER, DON'T YOU GO HATIN' ON BASED FUCKING FREDDY KRUEGER.

More power doesn't mean better comic book writer. Probably jealous. Morrison needs to put him in his place

>Probably jealous.
Not of Miller, I'm sure.
>Morrison needs to put him in his place
HA! I love Morrison, but not even he would dare to challenge Moore. The fight would destroy reality

Just realized my retard phone wrote 'racist' instead of 'fascist' thereby triggering the fuck out of Sup Forums.
When you see the guy admiring Spartans and talking about murdering protesters it just makes you wonder what he was trying to get across with DKR. Doesn't ruin it for me tho.

I wonder what a Morrison/Moore collaboration story would look like. What would it be about,who would illustrate?

>just makes you wonder what he was trying to get across with DKR

DKR is an absurdist candy-coloured fantasy. You might as well try and pull some sort of genuine political leanings out of Sin City, there's a point of exaggeration where it becomes pointless to even try.

>You might as well try and pull some sort of genuine political leanings out of Sin City
Well, it's the usual USA way: violence solves everything.

If violence isn't the answer, you aren't applying enough of it

>Well, it's the usual USA way: violence solves everything.

Sure, but it's not played straight. That comic runs on Robocop logic where every individual aspect is exaggerated and turned around.

I'm not going to defend post-DKSA miller but people trying to weave his entire career into a grand alt-right tapestry from beginning to end is nonsense. Artists get to become crazy old men too, it doesn't disregard their earlier works.

no, I'm sure there are others with bad taste too

>He was a HRC supporter
So he's fascist voting for a fascist?

They're both pals.

Same thing happened to Alan Moore, though not quite as dramatically. He still writes decent comics from time to time, but more and more often his comics are just him shoehorning his fetishes and talking about how everything new is terrible.

Did you read any of his Daredevil?

>Americans admitting they only believe in violence
It's great not to be American.

Do you prefer him because you think they're both bad writers, but Moore is the worse one? How does this question even come up, like you're only allowed to like one?

>trying to weave his entire career into a grand alt-right tapestry from beginning to end
It's called a career.

Are they?

>his art was groundbreaking at the time in terms of paneling and stuff like that
It really wasn't

*It's called a career for a reason

Violence keeps us alive, user, has for years

It's very important to the maintenance of a civilized
society

Do people not realize that we do not have it in us to be peaceful?

2edgy4me, kid.

I mean Providence is great, right? Providence is all Moore's gift for textual analysis and reference and integration combined with his turning the screw tight on an individual character's psyche. I can equally see the Moore who wrote Century writing Providence as I can the Moore who wrote Man Reversible The way back.

And it's even neophilic, rather than neophobic too. Sure it has some of his fetish hallmarks but he really is one of the GOATs to me, even now. Not everyone could write that comic.

Sin City's use of negative space wasn't groundbreaking to American comics?

Opinions like this could probably do with a dose of real violence!

>Sure, but it's not played straight. That comic runs on Robocop logic where every individual aspect is exaggerated and turned around.
Yeah, this is definitely true. I read a description/review of Miller's Sin City work as psychomorphic and I think that's a good word to describe it.

No, it was lazy.

That's what an autist would think

kek

ok m8

I would need to know your value scale or basis for appreciating art to argue this so if you want to throw that out there we can talk, but if you don't we can't go anywhere with this.

>edgy

It's not though

Why do you think we have to be socialized over a period of 18 years before we are officially adults?

That's a long time to teach people not to be mean to each other, but it's necessary, isn't it?

>filling panels with nothing is high art!
Lazy artist spotted.

>glorifies violence
>never practiced it
Chicken.

Dude you can tee hee to yourself about riling people up with pretend idiocy or we could actually talk about a comic. It's your choice which.

>Do you prefer him because you think they're both bad writers, but Moore is the worse one?
Yes. I don't like how they treat the characters, but Miller's treatment is more respectful IMO.

Like I said, Moore can still write good stuff, and does seem to actively learn from his mistakes (i.e. Century -> Nemo, Neonomicon -> Providence). He was always a good writer, it's just his age causes him to slip, same as everyone.

Miller, on the other hand, seems too far gone at this point.

So do you mean superhero stuff, primarily? You don't like how each of them handles the established cape character?

Is that the same thing as bad writing in a work in and of itself? It's only bad when you take into account what came previously, isn't it?

So, enjoying dem Bendis books where the artist repeats panel after panel with just a human figure drawn? Masterworks!

Your choice has been noted.

>still not explaining why panels full of nothing are so respectable
Why am I not surprised?

Nah, they're both good.

A lot of his stuff after that is pretty stupid though.

Using negative space isn't filling panels full of nothing.

If Sin city is full of panels of nothing post them.

You don't need a body count of your own to know that people are combative by nature, user

I mean, it even shows here on Sup Forums; since we can't actually fight each other when we get mad, we use hot words and threats instead.

No worse than what animals do when it wouldn't be prudent to fight but they need to get another animal to back off

Miller has never beaten s Sikh or anyone rlse to my knowledge. Calling him a racist based on the activities of others is just dumb. You're dumb.

Year One was saved by the art, because the writing wasn't anything speical at all. DKR was saved by the vs fags who ate up that shit writing and art so they could see Batman fight Superman. Yeah, he's pretty shit, but creatorfags love him because Stan hasn't eaten his soul yet.

Most people whose only familiarity with Miller is TDKR, Year One, and hearing about TDKSA, ASBAR, and Holy Terror don't like him, yes

You most likely read post-Miller Batman first, which is more or less derived from Miller Bat. So I understand how his stuff wouldn't stand out to you.

did you not read Last Crusade brother?

Regardless im not sure age is good reason for lesser quality stories, John Wagner is roughly the same age and still puts out 10/10 stuff. Hideshi Hino's best stuff was his alter stuff as well

I don't normally read geek culture oriented comics so my opinon might be of no value but I thought Year One was pretty decent. So after that I read DKR but found it to be nothing else than typical mainstream superdude crap aimed towards bullied kids. Never read Sin City but thought the movie adaptation was quite entertaining. Are the comics like the movie?

>So after that I read DKR but found it to be nothing else than typical mainstream superdude crap aimed towards bullied kids.

then you might be actually retarded since other than a serious house on serious earth, the dark knight returns is one of the only comic books that stands up to literature, just like watchmen

...

I actually like DKR more than Born again. For Miller's cape work, I think Daredevil run drawn by Miller>DKR>Born again=year one

>then you might be actually retarded
Or an adult. But I never enjoyed geek comics like superheroes as a kid either.

The movie is like a combination of 3-4 stories and yeah, it's pretty strongly creatively influenced by the Miller comics. They're like ~exxxtreme pulp~ but IMO worth reading. I would also say pretty much any Miller/Varley comic is worth reading for the art.

You're an idiot.

What else does "geek comic" cover?

If you actually think the dark knight returns is a "geek comic" youre fucking retarded. The story is ripe with mature themes and symbolism, and its an universal tale that will stand the test of time, never losing its touch with whatever audience reads it.

>he dark knight returns is one of the only comic books that stands up to literature, just like watchmen

Comics isn't literature. It's its own storytelling medium. Some comics aren't even dependent on the written word at all like Jim Woodring's Frank stuff for example.

you tried

superheroes, fantasy, sci-fi etc

It doesn't matter how well written, mature, thematic or complex it is. You can't get around the fact that it is about a guy dressing up as a bat, fighting villians. You just can't make a concept like that non-geeky.

i think robert kirkman is the worst writer currently active in comics

>the dark knight returns is one of the only comic books that stands up to literature, just like watchmen

This guy needs to broaden his horizon.

So genre fiction, basically? What about the non-geek comics?

Worse than Brian Michael?

>Or an adult
I'm guessing you have a pretty superficial definition of being an adult

Non-geek comics are comics that aren't about geeky stuff I guess, and aimed toward adult readers. People tend to call them underground/alternative/comix/literary comics but I find those labels stupid. It's just comics to me.

You're a fucking retard, DKR is schlock.

>one of the only comic books that stands up to literature

Eh, wouldn't that be something from another genre like Maus or something by Chris Ware or Adrian Tomine?

Do you not think that alt/underground comics are way more geeky from an outsider perspective, though? Using geek as the defining term feels odd.

Like if we were talking prose, not comics, your sci-fi/fantasy stuff would definitely be less geeky than your comix-equivalent.

Okay, maybe we're just delving into semantics here. But fantasy prose is still geek culture though? I mean it's the genres (superheroes, sci-fi and fanstasy) that are geek culture. They are not tied the to medium of comics. And I'm not using the word as a slur, I got nothing against you guys.

he definitely has shit taste yeah, but theres better comparisons to be made than that.

I think you're gonna find yourself saying that last part a lot if you keep using geek. Maybe not.

It's mainstream culture now, man. I have never seen GoT, for example, but every regular dude I know has. My normie (i dislike this label) friends are the only reason I have seen most cape films- I'd rather read comics.

Isn't that the correct word though? English isn't my native tounge but I thought geek culture was sort of a universal word for capes, sci-fi, fantasy, role-playing etc.

nerd culture. geek is degrading.

>. You can't get around the fact that it is about a guy dressing up as a bat, fighting villians. You just can't make a concept like that non-geeky.

youre just coming off as underage no matter how adult and non "geeky" you try to seem to be. Its a story about a warrior/ knight coming out of retirement for one last stand, representing the oppressed people. The second act deals with how that vigilante force clashes with an actual government and the law

If youre dismissing all of this because DURR HE DRESSES UP AS A BAT then youre fucking retarded

Id also add to this that the dark knight returns is one of the few batman stories that doesnt need to push BATMAN into the sidelines to be mature. If you genuinely just see a guy in a costume fighting, then the problem really is in your capacity to absorb anything deeper from it.

How is geek degrading but not nerd?

I thought it was the other way around?

even beyond the subject matter, DKR has some of the best visual storytelling in the medium

>talking about murdering protesters
I don't remember that. I remember him saying that the Occupy Wall Street protesters should "go back to their World of Warcraft" or something along those lines, but I sincerely doubt he'd want to impede anybody's freedom of expression, being an artist and all.

This is why trying to push different definitions of words that're synonyms for "asocial weirdo" is futile. Half the people insist that "geek" is empowering and "nerd" is derogatory", the other half insists the opposite, and still some people will also try to work a third definition in there for "dork".