Goddamn AVClub just ripped Marvel a new one. Interesting because the site is really casual friendly and only covers comics news but doesn't actually "review" them but I guess they couldn't resist this time. This critics really nails Civil War II and Nu-Marvel perfectly and I'm glad to see some casual backlash.
>Bad comics used to be fun. The first Civil War, 10 years in hindsight, had charm—a well-made piece of hokum that falls apart the moment one looks away. It was a fun book to flip through and pick out weird or awful or (occasionally) interesting sequences. It doesn’t hold up, not proportionate to the weight Marvel places on the fun potential of heroes splintering into violent schisms because of ideological differences. It poses a question answered by a majority of superhero stories published since roughly 1987: Who is cooler than who?
>No one is cooler than anyone, Marvel. Not now. No one’s going to be cool again for a very long time.
>Back in 2016, Marvel Studios released a very successful Captain America movie based on the Civil War storyline. Since the first Civil War resulted in a large pile of cash, Marvel Comics decided to see what else could be drawn from the well. My friends, the well was empty. The original does not lend itself to natural sequels. Iron Man and Captain America can’t have the same argument twice, unless you’re ’shipping them. Who else is on hand to provide a credible ideological foil? Maybe someone also slated for a big push in the near future? Why, excellent. Let’s put Captain Marvel into this Mad-Lib of a plot constructed out of whichever Marvel properties are slated to be featured in upcoming feature films. The Guardians Of The Galaxy are in this comic. Don’t ask why.
>>Marvel is in sad shape. These characters have no more weight on the page anymore. It’s possible to be distracted by individual successes like Ms. Marvel or Squirrel Girl or The Ultimates. But put all these heroes on one page—including many of the company’s flagship characters, stuck in the throes of uninspired costume redesigns—and there’s no friction. These characters inhabit a trivial world. Brian Michael Bendis’ diaphanous plot falls apart the moment one looks at it. The conflicts are so ill-defined that the Beast needs to spend two pages at the end explaining the series’ themes. There are so many endings. There’s the Beast haranguing Carol about the book’s plot, a deus ex machina so random it almost achieves the audacious, a pin-up spread advertising future Marvel Comics, and a final final ending that would have read quite differently had a different candidate won in November. None of it hangs together.
>Civil War II #8 (Marvel) looks pretty, thanks to David Marquez. Oddly, everything is magenta. Nothing fits together right. It points in the direction of future stories that people don’t want to read, starring characters who don’t look or act like anyone wants. A few strong new concepts are hopelessly adrift in a sea of 55- and 75-year-olds acting out the motions of their attenuated senescence. One suspects the problem, however, is not the age of the characters, but the tenure of the creators. Although some of the action figures are moved around the board, the overall effect is boredom. There is nothing interesting about this story, except that in execution it bears a striking resemblance not to the rebooted Secret Wars but to another famous sequel pushed through by creators too seasoned and too powerful to see their errors—Secret Wars II.
Alexander Bailey
>Civil War >well-made Stopped reading there.
Daniel Perez
O'Neil is the best shredder of Bendis. Took apart Age of Ultron in detail.
Kevin Murphy
But if you continue it says >piece of hokum that falls apart the moment one looks away.
Adam Roberts
>These characters have no more weight on the page anymore. It's what happens when you use the same characters over and over everywhere.
James Thomas
>One suspects the problem, however, is not the age of the characters, but the tenure of the creators.
>Bendis gtfo reeeeeeeeee I mean I agree but that's a delicate way of saying it.
Eli Rivera
What you lack in reading comprehension, you more than make up for in being a faggot.
Jaxson King
The general public still loves Marvel. They're trucking shops into buying their crap, digital sales are still good and people in general like them. Critically speaking the top 20 comics of last year was dominated by marvel according to most sites. And while there are some that hate Marvel on Sup Forums, if you look at other forums or plebbit you see people liking their diversity push and Whor and the like. Squrrel girl is selling well digitally and in tpb and is eisner nominated and top 5 of 2016 almost everywhere.
Cameron Butler
That's a good headline. CW2 is not only bad but it's not even fun to laugh at.
I think there's probably not as much risk in being harsh with CW2. Even casuals can smell that it's a cash grab with the movie coming out.
Isaiah Howard
That is a completely savage review, which is nonetheless fair and accurate.
David Jenkins
Okay.
So?
Hudson Sanders
And yet Marvel will continue to ignore this and pat themselves on the back for being so progressive and innovative...
Jace Bell
Aw man, that makes me nostalgic for times I used to visit AVclub just to read Dexter reviews.
The comparison between Civil War II and Secret Wars II is apt and I've been saying it for months.
Brayden James
He and Jim Shooter should team up.
Gavin Sullivan
>The general public still loves Marvel Movies
>And while there are some that hate Marvel on Sup Forums, if you look at other forums or plebbit you see people liking their diversity push and Whor and the like Can you post some actual examples of this?
Brody White
So this review means nothing. Marvel are gonna continue dominating despite their shit quality and even though you might see a smug shop owner complain that he can't sell marvel comics, at the end if the day Marvel will still be on top.
Andrew Williams
>other forums or plebbit Cocksuckers gonna cocksuck.
Christopher Evans
Even if that is the case (and frankly Marvel has quite a few good books right now that get ignored in favor of the "lolmarlel is trash XD" meme-ing). there's no arguing that CWII is a steaming pile of absolute fucking garbage that did more harm than good to the line as a whole. Just as DCYou was crippled by Convergence, Marvel NOW 2.0 is crippled by CWII.
Marvel Events are usually bad, but as this article states, they're usually a "fun" kind of bad. There was no fun to be had with CWII. Just a plodding, uninteresting mess that ruined everything it touched. It will go down in history as a fucking mistake.
Jaxson Campbell
I just told you to look at other forums or plebbit. Then again two days ago there were 3 marvel shill threads on the first page with hundreds if replies so you can even look at Sup Forums. And it's nice that you ignore the fact that marvel has had a lot if critically acclaimed comics this past year.
Jackson Watson
For free or for a fee?
Grayson Gutierrez
>Marvel Events are usually bad, but as this article states, they're usually a "fun" kind of bad This mentality is why they've already won.
Brody Foster
This isn't a review of Marvel is a company or their their entire comics line. It's a review of Civil War II. CWII is not reflective of the entire line, and thank god for that.
Dominic Carter
>I just told you to look at other forums or plebbit. Well the thing is that I don't actually believe you and think you're lying. You made the claim, burden of proof is on you here
Adrian Reyes
I feel like with CW2 they had to know it was bad. Remember there was the internal leak months in advance. Someone is trying to sink Bendis as far as how he has power internally. If Spencer's event performs well I'm betting you'll see Bendis on fewer titles going forward.
Jaxson Jenkins
>CWII is not reflective of the entire line Yeah it is.
Adam Perez
>THE SAME EXACT SHIT WAS SOMEHOW GOOD WHEN IT WAS OLDER BECAUSE NOSTALGIA, REEEEE! Fuck off, whoever wrote this.
Michael Cox
>critically acclaimed The things some people will do for a living.
Jeremiah Rogers
wen even normies can look trougth your shit you know you fuked up
Charles Morales
Are you retarded? You don't even need to make an account to check those places. You're so separated from reality it's not even funny.
Ryan Wright
And the band kept playing on...
Christopher Wood
>they had to know it was bad. Still sold like hotcakes and sparked a lot of discussion.
Joseph Reyes
Then it clearly wasn't well-made. It's not that user's fault that whoever wrote that article is a retard who immediately contradicts himself. This is what passes for "journalism" on the internet, I suppose...
Brandon Bailey
>looks pretty, thanks to David Marquez. When will this meme end?
Sebastian Edwards
You mean, free hotcakes. Ever since Marvel began to give away comics for free, their sales charts are not to be trusted anymore.
Zachary Sanders
It underperformed compared to Secret Wars, they will not be happy about those numbers.
Gabriel Powell
Going to AVClub for comic book reviews is like reading a take out menu for insights on market costs of meat and seafood.
Daniel Peterson
It only underperformed compared to their previous even which ended, what, 3 months before CW2 started?
William White
Nah, this is an old problem rearing up once again. Go back through mainstream comics history and you'll find plenty of instances of a creator getting enough clout that they can get away with pretty much anything, and end up producing shit or steering a line into shit.
Elijah Gomez
And yet Sup Forums visited it in the days when Marvel ruled. Hmm...
Jaxson Rogers
The point of the article is that they're not even that anymore. They're not "fun bad', they're just terrible.
If you spent more time actually reading and less time being an idiot jackass you'd see what the author was clearly saying: Civil War was well-made in that it was entertaining on the surface and offered lots of fun/cool moments, even if the event itself was hollow overall.
Civil War II doesn't even have that. It's so poorly done it's not even enjoyable on a surface level, it's just pointlessly moving pieces around for marketing reasons.
Benjamin Allen
The way they treat Bendis they expect him to sell 200k+ through at least 4 issues on something like this. That the book only stayed above 200k for the #1 (boosted by variants) is a huge problem.
You can't have mediocre sales AND be a critical failure when you're a star writer. They are going to cut him down.
Gavin Rogers
>Other means (ahem) U KNEW?
Adrian King
What went wrong
Aiden King
>Marvel movies are great and they rake in the big bucks so they can support the comics division >As a result "da mouse" doesn't care (most) of the comics published are pure dogshit
Monkey's paw indeed
Eli Perez
You can just say you don't personally care for his art. Other people having different opinions about art isn't a "meme".
Matthew Lopez
It does not translate to sales though.
Gavin Cruz
>mediocre sales >be at least top 5 for the entire run for each month Alright
Lucas Reyes
>Marvel movies are great I seriously hope you're joking
Cameron Harris
Guy is trash, my man.
Joseph Wood
>What went wrong
You got triggered by mantle passing which is a trope as old as cape comics
Ayden Cooper
Top 5 doesn't matter as much as quantity of issues actually shipped.
The event also tanked the sales of ongoings that tied in. Poor performance all around.
Isaiah Roberts
>it was entertaining on the surface and offered lots of fun/cool moments
Chase Ortiz
>not liking badass Bat-Gordon
Justin Johnson
>Wondy Isn't she sporting the cleavage again?
Logan Lee
It does matter because if nobody's doing better than you then you're still king.
Colton Price
Some of these were for the better and some of this have already been undone.
Eli Thomas
Better than DC now at any rate.
Isaac Reyes
That isn't saying much either.
James King
Also a number of those aren't actual replacements (N52 Flash, Gwenpool, ugly She-Hulk) or have just been reversed (Gordon Batman), or brought the original back (Steve Rogers, Rider Nova)
Brandon Cook
They're great for what they are.
Kevin Lopez
Eisner and forums dont mean shit. Mainstream audience likes the movies and the toy merchandise which is based off of the old Marvel, not the SJW nu-Marvel. Comic book retailers everywhere are reporting bad Marvel book sales, digital sales arent doing much better.
Shills like you dont understand that Marvel really needs to see just how badly they're doing to finally start fixing things. Self-denial will only make the crash that much more inevitable.
Kayden Evans
Some people are too new know that change is seldom permanent in capes.
Yeah, quipfests.
Cameron Brooks
I didn't say it was irrelevant, but internally the raw numbers matter more than placement. It's not seen as success and they will chase the next golden goose. Spencer is the one they're grooming for it but we'll see.
Gabriel Martinez
>Comix
Who even uses this term outside of old Underground stuff?
Adam Morgan
Garbage?
Kayden Cruz
Newfags.
Xavier Johnson
>Yeah, quipfests.
Yep. Nothing wrong there. They're not trying to be high art, they're just making films people will enjoy.
Jordan Cook
>and they will chase the next golden goose They've been doing this for the past 3 years...
Noah Price
If that's your opinion, I guess.
Benjamin Smith
>b-but eating shit is healthy!
Levi Robinson
Sorry mate, but when every single line if dialogue is a quip then that's a problem. And then they try to be ultra serious and the clashing of tones produces a mess. Also, awful cheap cgi. Everything is fucking green screen...
Bentley Bailey
That should be the formula of the comics as well. Write exciting stories of adventure and action with superhero powers, not some "progressive" stupid bullshit where characters talk a fucking novel in the page.
If Marvel would actually impose "only 3 speech bubbles allowed per two pages"-rule on their comics, they migh finally begin to treat their comics as proper visual forms of entertainment, instead of just having talking heads do absolutely nothing.
Another rule should be that if the writer cannot figure out how to make the superpower of the hero exciting, replace the writer immediatly.
Ethan Hall
Liefeld pls
Logan White
>Liefeld >exciting superpowers
Choose one.
Mason Cox
>Marvel movies are great and they rake in the big bucks so they can support the comics division The movies are no longer part of Marvel Entertainment, so the success of the movies have no real bearing on the comics side outside of sending a handful of people to want to get into the comics side and increasing the popularity of merch. The income from the movies themselves though are going straight to Disney, not to Marvel Entertainment.
Adam Cox
That would lead to more decompression because they'd fill pages with unnecessary action.
Nathaniel James
>mediocre sales
Save Secret War, it was the best selling event since the OG Civil War, IIRC. I know it was the best since at least AxV.
Hudson Myers
Oh come on don't be dense. People love that scene of Peter bouncing ontop of those villains/Mr Fantastic and the scene where Frank blows away Jack O'Lantern and Stiltman (?) was hilarious.
Logan Evans
Hickman worked out pretty well for them. Secret Wars made bank and was received pretty well compared most Marvel events.
Then Hickman dipped out once Secret Wars was over and washed his hands of the whole affair, as did Remender, hence why they had to fall back on Bendis with CWII. Spencer doing Secret Empire and Ewing doing Eternity War hopefully go well enough that they don't have to bring out Bendis again anytime soon.
Jose Martin
>Stiltman is still dead Yeah, fucking funny.
David Ward
Well, there's a clone of him running around now thanks to Ben Reilly.
Jaxon Sanders
Unnecessary action is still always better than unnecessary dialogue and talking heads.
Juan Gomez
Jesus Christ, this makes me wanna read Age of Ultron just to see how big of a mess it is with my own eyes.
Mason Scott
Not really. Same shit.
Caleb Morgan
The kids of today should defend themselves against the nineties.
Elijah Garcia
Not really better just different.
Jayden Smith
Haha guy that made the thread on riddit whining about diversity your ass is getting rekt!
Jason Collins
>My opinion is objective fact
user, Regardless of what your opinion on those movies are they are loved by people all over the world, the good ones are acclaimed by critics and the worst ones being formulaic. Now I know all the inbreeding in your family has caused serious mental deficencies but if you're going to a movie of men in tights with supernatural powers who got them by being bitten by radioactive spiders or a billionare pretending to be a bat and you expect high art, then you're unironically autistic. Seek medical help
I know you're going to respond with some Sup Forums tier response like >le marvelcuck
So just so you know, this is an argument you lost.
>every single line if dialogue is a quip then that's a problem.
Your opinion and the general consensus doesn't agree considering 1) Cape movies are inherently ridiculous and serious dialogue is retarded 2)The general populace loves a joke, just loves laughing. Woe is them.
>they try to be ultra serious and the clashing of tones produces a mess. Has never happened. As I said cape movies are inherently ridiculous. However that is my opinion and it differs from your opinion so who really cares?
>Also, awful cheap cgi. Everything is fucking green screen...
ok
Adrian Hall
This post gave me cancer.
Evan Campbell
>scroll down >see this Hahaha what?
Cooper Evans
xd sure showed him Sup Forumsrother
Carson Martinez
>comparing to Secret Wars II
man, CW2 is bad but i dunno if i could go that far.
Secret Wars II was crimes-against-humanity levels of awfulness. CW2 is merely mundane-shit.
Carson Gutierrez
>distracted by individual successes like Ms. Marvel or Squirrel Girl or The Ultimates. t. cuck Though it's good to see even the cucks are turning against Marvel.
Angel Cook
Do you mean you didn't read Love is Love or are you using it as a reaction image?
