Why do people try to rewrite history and claim that Lucas isn't the man behind the OT?
He is responsible for the parts everyone remembers even from the ones he didn't direct. He wrote the "I am your father line" for Christ's sake".
Even if you don't like the PT, no one ever says "oh he lost his touch" like they do with Coppola, it's always muh saved in editing muh Kasdan, muh shaved rat who really came up with the story.
Fuck Mike Stoklasa and fuck you.
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mike's just jealous of george's full head of hair
It's a meme opinion which, as you correctly identified, mostly originates from RLM. George Lucas was pretty fucking cool in his prime. He just got too rich, too comfortable, and out-of-touch by the time he made the prequels.
>He just got too rich, too comfortable, and out-of-touch by the time he made the prequels.
Or did he?
Yes, yes he did.
>89722740
No (You)fruit for (You)
But did he? Did he REALLY?
I find that a lot of people just have a really gay thing where they refuse to see any nuance in anything. Everything has to be 100% bad or 100% good. It's inconceivable that he could do a great job on one film, and miss the mark on another
Irvin Kershner > George Mucas
Kasdan is the biggest imposter in this story. The indiana Jones brainstorming tapes reveal that the whole story was from Lucas, Spielberg barely contributed, and with dumbe shit at times. kasdan is credited as writer but the story is from George, and it was the same thing on ESB. look at kasdan track record, it's only truds after turds, one of the most lucky kike in Hollywood. He hasn't written or directed anything during the 10 years prior Force Awakens. Once again lucky kike capitalizing on George's success. Anyone still doubt that guy is a hack after TFA?
Look at the rest of Kershner's filmography.
ESB is by far the best film there.
you mean <
Kershner was hack that didn't deserve Empire or even RoboCop 2
>look at the rest of Kershner's filmography
All better than Empire. Kershner is one of the best American film directors and was George's film teacher in college.
>All better than Empire.
wtf I love Robocop 2 now
George Lucas is by far the worst New Hollywood director next to Cimino. He's a hack that had taste in movies lightyears better than he ever hoped to make.
But he made good movies????
t. manchild that only watches capeshit and scifi
Kasdan isn't complete shit. He's better at righting dramedy and stuff like that. The sci fi and adventure genres he just kind of stumbled into through connections. But yeah, TFA confirms he's way overrated with his contributions to SW and Indy
No. All copies and pastiches of better films.
Are you or are you not calling Robocop 2 better than Empire?
>Kasdan isn't complete shit
You're acting as if George Lucas is anything but the definition of mediocrity.
Star Wars is way better than The Hidden Fortress though.
t. manchild that only watches capeshit and scifi
Are you implying that anyone could have come up with the biggest franchise in history?
I guess not then. Thanks 4 playing.
>He wrote the "I am your father line" for Christ's sake"
Is that supposed to be impressive? It's a dumb shitty daytime TV soap opera tier twist that only a hack would inject into his story.
Kasdan is good with dialogue. He barely touched the story for Indy and Star Wars. That was 95% George with minimal input from other people.
I'm lucky I discovered who McQuarrie was when I was like 10, he's pretty much the only thing I cared about in Star Wars.
If only Disney hired a new visual mastermind instead of hiring a committee to copy the old one.
And yet it's a sighted highlight for people that love ESB.
Anybody can sell toys.
Stay pleb, reddit
>McQuarrie
drew what George told him to
Answer this. Do you still get happy meals?
This is Sup Forums tier meme-ing.
George is not an artist. He is an idea man. McQuarrie's designs are the work of an artist.
>Stay pleb, reddit
You made the claim friend.
>Star wars fans are illiterate
*yawn
The prequels are good world building and those who grew up with them are more likely to enjoy them, not because of the films, but because they had better legos, books, and vidya to accompany them because by then Star Wars was heavily a merchandise brand. Which is true, imagine if we went from the OT to the new trilogy, kids would wonder why their toys were the same as their parents models, only their TIEs had a red stripe on them or their X-Wings were black and orange instead of white/grey and red,
Relying on CGI too much to make the movie look impressive and rushing a romance plot really killed the PT.
Speaking of which, can we expect a giant creature in episode 8 (more likely 9)?
I've been (dreading) waiting for an epic scene where x-wings have to fly around a giant benevolent force beast.
Everything he touched was mindless pop trash after American Graffiti. There's a reason why Alec Guinness was embarrassed of his participation in Star Wars.
He's not an artist. More like a plagiarist and a toy designer. Not surprised Americans idolize him.
If Lucas had equivalent creative and budget that he did in the prequels starwars would be some shitty movie from the 70s nobody remembers.
>Han Solo was supposed to be swamp thing
What a joke
the trips of truth
he was at one point, see above post
>>Han Solo was supposed to be swamp thing
wtf I hate Chewie and Jabba and Yoda now
American Graffiti is just a fucking music video. Literally 70's version of a beach party film like Gidget and Where the Boys Are.
No?
This. George isn't a complete hack, but he's also not solely responsible for the OT. There's some truth to both points of view that the OP presented.
George came up with the story and helped guide the franchise, which he absolutely deserves credit for. But how the series actually turned out had a lot to do with other people. He had a lot of help with the script (including a near complete rewrite from friends right before filming), and it's universally agreed that his wife's re-edit is what made the movie watchable. He had a large hand in the early stages of ESB's development, but was pretty hands off for most of production; during filming and post, his input was mostly relegated to yelling at Kershner and Kurtz for going overbudget and telling them they were ruining his movie. He even made his own cut of the movie to "save" it, and it was awful. He was more hands-on for ROTJ, but made made some decisions purely for the sake of merchandising.
He's not a perfect filmmaker, and he's always been fairly open about that. He doesn't think he's a good writer and doesn't particularly like directing; IIRC he wanted to be a cinematographer, but his film school friends kept pushing him to try other things out. He's good at coming up with stories, but those stories work best when other people help execute them.
Yes. Cry somewhere else that your favorite director is an obese hack.
>He was more hands-on for ROTJ
Explains why it's shit
>and it's universally agreed that his wife's re-edit is what made the movie watchable
Is it?
Yes. Cry somewhere else that your favorite director is an obese hack.
>He wrote the "I am your father line" for Christ's sake"
They believe in Christ in Star Wars?
Now reduce THX 1138 to a meme description.
What's even the appeal of Star Wars? Always looked corny and kiddy.
>He is responsible for the parts everyone remembers even from the ones he didn't direct
In Lucas' star wars luke was an old man and han solo was a reptilian snakeman alien.
Non no no, the narrative is that only the prequels are corny.
Americans needed some trash to occupy their mind after Nixon
Yeah make half the main cast unitelligible aliens, dumb fuck.
But Lucas's Star Wars is Star Wars.
>But how the series actually turned out had a lot to do with other people.
Eh, this is true of all films, even by directors more talented and tasteful than Lucas. It's always a team effort.
Simplified 1984 mixed for babies.
Yes. Have you read much about the production of the movie? George's first cut of the movie was apparently a boring, somewhat incoherent mess. Marcia's cut of the movie introduced a better sense of pacing and made the movie watchable. She's also the person who came up with the "kiss for luck" scene and it was her idea to kill Obi-wan Kenobi, because he wasn't doing anything for half the movie anyway.
Now explain why Walter Murch is a hack.
>Relying on CGI too much
I really hate this meme. Even using motion captured soldiers for clones was still necessary just to have hundreds of them in battle in a single shot, otherwise we would've just have like only a dozen just like every other film.
>George's first cut of the movie was apparently a boring, somewhat incoherent mess.
Have you seen it?
No one here has. It was so embarrassing, it's never been released, but everyone who saw it has commented on how bad it was. That's why Marcia Lucas and Richard Chew were hired last minute and had to scramble to salvage a decent movie before the release date.
>diversion
That's how you know lucas is shit
Then why is John Milious(sp?) quoted as saying that George edited all his films (possibly during college, the quote isn't specific) because George was a way better editor than him?
>Star Wars fans ae illiterate
*yawn
No?
The movie you criticized was co-made by someone that doesn't have the negative memes of Lucas to taint him.
The redlettermedia "George Lucas sucks" meme and feminists happy to vastly overstate the importance of Marcia Lucas' work.
en.wikipedia.org
>Jympson was hired to edit Star Wars (1977). Director George Lucas had wanted to use Richard Chew, but Jympson was a cheaper, local option who would not require a work permit for the film's England shoot. Lucas liked Jympson's work on A Hard Day's Night and thought he would do a good job on Star Wars.[3] Jympson began cutting the film together while Lucas was still filming in Tunisia; as Lucas noted, the editor was in an "impossible position" because Lucas had not explained any of the film's material to him. When Lucas watched Jympson's rough cut for the first time, he disliked what he saw. J. W. Rinzler wrote that "Jympson's selection of takes was questionable, and he seemed to be having trouble doing match-cuts." Lucas was prepared to give Jympson more time; Jympson disliked Lucas' working style.[4] As production went on, Lucas still disapproved of Jympson's cut and fired him halfway through the film's production. He commented: "Unfortunately it didn't work out. It's very hard when you are hiring people to know if they are going to mesh with you and if you are going to get what you want. In the end, I don't think he fully understood the movie and what I was trying to do. I shoot in a very peculiar way, in a documentary style, and it takes a lot of hard editing to make it work."[5] Lucas replaced him with Paul Hirsch, Richard Chew and his wife Marcia Lucas.[6] Jympson's edit, the "Lost Cut", contained about 30-40% different footage from the film's final version.[7]
here's a scene. it's pretty bad.
Are you sure he wasn't talking about Marcia? Here's a Milius quote about her:
>"She was a stunning editor...Maybe the best editor I've ever known, in many ways. She'd come in and look at the films we'd made--like The Wind and the Lion, for instance--and she'd say, 'Take this scene and move it over here,' and it worked. And it did what I wanted the film to do, and I would have never thought of it. And she did that to everybody's films: to George's, to Steven [Spielberg]'s, to mine, and Scorsese in particular."
Either way, that doesn't have much to do with how Star Wars was originally edited. Again, every person who was involved in the post-production of that movie and saw George's edit has commented on how shockingly bad it was, and how Marcia saved it.
>No?
Why do you end everything in a question like someone with asperger's
also walter murch is the roger deakins of sound editors. boris barnet's films employed the same techniques decades before
>Are you sure he wasn't talking about Marcia?
Yes, in "Skywalking" he is talking about Lucas, George.
>George's edit
no
So? Lucas might have been a better editor than Milius, but he wasn't a better editor than Marcia, and we're not talking about John Milius's student films. I'm not saying that Lucas isn't a good filmmaker, I'm saying that his wife's (and Richard's Chew's) editing of the movie resulted on the movie we know today, which is pretty well documented.
>is the roger deakins of sound editors.
So a great one?
>inb4 inauthentic insincere
Generalizations are dumb. Deakins has done good non meme work, like Jesse James.
>Everyones arguing about the Damn editing
I say a good 30% of what makes star wars good is the music, John Williams is a god damn legend, too bad most of TFA music was shit, best part is no George Lucas diehard can claim he wrote all the music. Yea he gave ideas but one man brought it too life
But you also got this
wrong.
Lucas himself did not make the first edit. In fact, he's the one who deemed unsatisfactory and got Chew.
Also editors work for the director.
>So a great one?
You have to go back faggot.
>Jesse James
literally in the pic I just posted. It's trash.
>muh bleach bypass
literally dating back to the 50's
Even Gregg Toland's color work has pretty much all the traits of Deakin's sloppy hackjobs. Read a fucking book and get some taste instead of watching liveaction cartoons
So people can't make movies look good if someone else already did it that way?
If you think anything by Deakins in the pic I posted looks good or even remotely challenging, suicide is your only option. I don't have anything else to say you except, fuck off.
So a copy of someone you think looks good doesn't look good?
?????
The Endless Summer picture really makes me want to watch it, and it gives me a feel for how the movie might be.
Star Wars always was for 12 year old kids. I saw Episode 1 when i was 12 with my father at the cinema and i had and absolute blast. People angry at the PT are angry that Star Wars didn't grow up with them and that made them feel old and bitter.
They're not copies, they're hackjobs! If you bought a sloppily traced version of the Mona Lisa, you'd either be a postmodernist artfaggot or an idiot.
It's a documentary, not for dummies.
Turkeyneck was a good idea man but he needed people to help him shape and focus his concepts. The result was STAR WARS. When he got rid of those people the result was THE PHANTOM MENACE. End of story!!!FACT!!!
No?
what's the difference?
People aren't rewriting history. It is a known fact that Empire's script benefitted from Leigh Brackett's involvement even though Lucas has been butthurt and passive aggressive about it. The first draft had all the important emotional beats and setpieces that people love in the finished film.
Lucas only visited the set couple of times during filming. Kershner's cut was preferred over George's cut.
>When he got rid of those people the result was THE PHANTOM MENACE.
TPM is no worse than RotJ.
>Empire's script benefitted from Leigh Brackett's involvement even though Lucas has been butthurt and passive aggressive about it.
uh
.
I thought I saw a post. Must have been the wind.
Malick pls
You don't know shit about Lucas or how SW came together. Eat a dick.
All this info predates the web you gay faggot.
Something to get you started:
He had a nervous breakdown after Star Wars. He came back changed after that.
Very likely he had been conditioned to associate anything Star Wars with deep psychological pain and anxiety. Maybe even legit PTSD.
He seemed happy handing ESB off to other people, but they blew the budget and he had to go begging Fox for money to complete, and it cost him. By Jedi he was running it like a business and wanted out ASAP. Which is why he used Jedi to launch his Ewok offshoot idea. And then made two more Ewok live action movies and a cartoon. Then committed the rest of the decade to the Indiana Jones TV show.
This is completely apart from the creative process. This is him, personally, not being able to handle SW or any form of struggle or sacrifice associated with it.
Everything you think is a "Lucas moment" in the OT, likely had more hands in it than you know. So stfu.
>TFA had bad music
The music was probably the best thing about TFA what the fuck are you talking about? Unless you got it mixed up with R1
>here's a scene. it's pretty bad.
What exactly makes it bad? The only difference from the finished film (apart from the sound editing) is Solo's chick, it's identical to ANH other than that
>Everything you think is a "Lucas moment" in the OT
But that contradicts your ANH talk.
McQuarrie didn't even design most of the stuff he's credited for. The Falcon and all the ship designs were by other artists working on the film. McQuarie was a creatures guy.
>She's also the person who came up with the "kiss for luck" scene and it was her idea to kill Obi-wan Kenobi
She was brought it in post-production, how would she come up with either of those after they were filmed? Guinness claimed he came up with killing Kenobi anyway.
He called Disney "black slavers" on television. Doesn't get more red-pilled than that for a fat old rich movie guy.
Not that guy, and you're right about Kenobi, but as for the kids I think he meant that she wanted to keep it in, and George wanted to cut it. I've heard that, but I've never heard that she came up with it.
George probably came up with it, seeing as there is a similar loss in AotC (when Padme jumps on the Reek).