>>This weekend, the X-Men comics’ new lead writer Marc Guggenheim and Arrow co-creator/showrunner gave a very telling interview. Talking about the future of the X-Men characters at Marvel he said “It’s more about the X-Men as heroes than the X-Men as a struggling minority fighting for their very existence… That existential crisis is tabled for the time being”. During their publication, and especially during their eighties revival with Chris Claremont at the helm, the X-Men, New Mutants and X-Factor turned the comics into a social parable, playing up as a power fantasy for oppressed minorities, and giving others an insight into social issues that they might have otherwise been immune from. Of late this kind of storytelling has become more pronounced, probably kicked off with the likes of The Authority, Ultimates and Civil War, with more recent stories in comics such as Captain America, The Champions and Ms. Marvel wearing their politics firmly on their spandex sleeves.
>>There has also been reaction from some fan communities and retailers to these kind of stories as having no place in superhero comics, despite all the many examples that have preceded it. Maybe it’s a little more obvious now? Maybe everyone is interpreting everything politically? Maybe fans wish for a time when they didn’t realise their superhero comics had political elements? Either way, Marvel Comics has been a focal point for this kind of discussion. And last week’s Marvel creative summit I am told by well connected sources who have proved themselves in that past there was more of a focus on what DC Comics internally called “meat and potatoes” comics that preceded their doubling down on the popular characters and bringing back old favourite takes with DC Rebirth.
>>I am told, as Marvel brings back the X-Men line with a bang, to expect a return to more of a status quo for titles such as Thor, Iron Man, Hulk and more. A more familiar looking Marvel Universe by the autumn – although, just as with Captain America, as classic-look-characters return, expect new characters to keep a number of their books.
>> am told that Marvel knows that the upcoming Secret Empire is probably too political for some readers given this current climate but they are in too deep to change direction on it now. They also believe firmly that it’s a quality book – though if people can’t get behind writer Nick Spencer‘s exploration of current politics to read it, that might be an issue. And, just as with recent Captain America issues and the recent Civil War II: The Oath, guaranteed to needle at people’s political beliefs – whatever they are. >>I am told to expect that Secret Empire will be a bit of a last hurrah for this kind of storytelling from Marvel for a while. A little how Marvel writers were told to get the use of the Marvel 616 dimensional nomenclature out of their system before it was done away with for good…
Caleb Evans
I'm shocked they aren't just going to undo OMD and basically all but officially divorce the Spidey books (save Miles' book) and the X-Men books as their own little fiefdoms for the hardcore non-SJW readers, with the clear cut implication that they will give the nerds what they want (married Spidey, X-Men circa the franchise's glory days) and expect them to basically STFU via sacrificing those franchise to the non-SJW fans so that the Avengers and rest of the Marvel Universe remains in SJW hell, but with no danger of being canceled since they are propped up ENTIRELY by X-Men and Spiderman fans buying those books.
Christopher Morales
But they will still let Bendis skullfuck any Marvel character he pleases so what is the fucking point.
Brandon Harris
The Spider-Man marriage is the hill to which Marvel will never surrender. They would soon as take the entire company to the right than ever reverse that edict.
That said, the Bleeding Cool article does give some credibility to the last round of Marvel Insiders: that Secret Empire couldn't be changed due to it being set in stone/that any changes would take place in the fall, plus the guy who said that Ms Marvel and the rest of the social justice books had reached the point of no return, in terms of selling so badly that they could no longer come up with excuses to keep them alive and that the writers were trying to hijack the "#DeleteMarvel" movement to try and make sure the narrative when Ms Marvel, Hellcat, etc go away is pro-SJW/anti-Ike in terms of scapegoating Ike and Trump for it.
Carson Rogers
Speaking of which, am I the only one fearing that they will scapegoat USAgent in the end and have Miles kill him accidentally?
Spencer made a huge point in the Civil War tie-in issues that USAgent went missing after his fight with Sam and they established that Steve was cleaning up loose ends like the Senator he had the Flag Smasher LMD kill.
I could totally see that being the out they use (John takes the blame for everything) and Iron Man bringing Steve back with his memories blanked from the last year and all of Steve's appearances post-Stand-Off being handwaved as an LMD USAgent used to distract people.
William Parker
I think they will have Steve regain his memories sooner than later; probably right before the event happens so that the twist is that Steve's fighting Hydra and Red Skull using Xavier's telepathy to impersonate Steve as their out to allow the super-hero community to forgive Steve.
Either that or, per Spencer's recent shift to the right i Sam's book, he'll let himself take a fall for Ike Putterman and have Cap/Hydra be proven morally correct and "The Secret Empire" is going to be Steve and members of the super-hero community who realize Steve is in the right morally and ethically, fighting against Skull and it being spun that by doing so, Steve avoids any real consequence to his actions.
Gabriel Nguyen
They can't though. Ulysses' visions make the people around them feel their selves in those visions. Cap felt his dead ass in Miles' hands so it's unlikely for it to be USAgent.
Easton Morgan
So, the real question here is: are the fled Marvel fans gonna act spiteful and not buy in as a form of punishment, or are they gonna give Marvel a shot with the hope that it makes them realize who their fucking base is?
Sebastian Hernandez
Given the retcon shit Marvel has pulled, they can ignore Ulysses making people feel his visions as a mind control type thing.
Zachary Peterson
>are the fled Marvel fans gonna act spiteful and not buy in as a form of punishment, or are they gonna give Marvel a shot I dropped Marvel since One More Day. At this point, they could bring the Spidey marriage back into main canon, and retcon the last 10 years of liberal pandering into non-existence, and I still wouldn't give them a cent. I've just grown far too bitter toawrds Marvel over the years. The movies definitely aren't helping.
Noah Reyes
Depends on how hard they pander.
At the very least they need Jessica Jones to die a bitch death the same way Rebirth had Pandora be put down like a dog by Dr Manhattan, to symbolize a new era being dawned and that not even Bendis and his prized poodles are safe.
Carson Lewis
>That said, the Bleeding Cool article does give some credibility to the last round of Marvel Insiders:
It didn't give you some credibility, Jesse.
Gavin Rivera
I feel the same way with the X-Men. After "Shit Itself" I couldn't even bother to try "Shitism" and decided that the X-Men are done!
Julian Diaz
This "no place in comics" perception has got to go.
Marvel has always been a place for liberal progressive comics. The problem is that modern liberals, with little real problems left to fight for, have turned inward and become a regressive movement. Simply put, marvel comics have sold to white male allies for decades and you're going to lose your base with the regressives having decided that white males are now the root of all evil.
SJWs dont buy your product anyways and lord knows you pandered hard enough for a half-decade.
Owen Peterson
It's not that politics don't have a place in comics, comics were always political, but I hate when people try to equate Captain America punching nazis to UNSOLICITED OPINIONS ON ISRAEL
Tyler Nguyen
>Marvel has always been a place for liberal progressive comics > little real problems left to fight for
Xavier Mitchell
>Marvel has always been a place for liberal progressive comics >The problem is that modern liberals have decided that white males are the root of all evil
Jack Johnson
>Further social progress is impossible >Progressives should just conserve the status quo >They could call themselves conservatives!
Thomas Campbell
no one said marvel writers weren't always leftwing idiots
but marvel didn't used to be political propaganda
this guy: gets it
there's nothing political about captain america punching hitler
modern marvel however is political
Elijah Sanchez
>butthurt sjws butthurt that they got called out for being the cause of all problems in the world
Sebastian Scott
I don't think it matters. The SJW crowd that they gave so much power too, don't buy many comics and STILL are talking about a boycott over the personal beliefs of the CEO. Marvel is fleeing a sinking ship.
Hunter Powell
>marvel didn't used to be political propaganda Except in the 40s, the 50s, the 60s...
Michael Morgan
>a publisher famous for shitting on creator rights is so liberal and progressive
Nathan Ramirez
Finally.
Jace Reed
>believing that being "liberal and progressive" means that you are a good person
Nolan Powell
More like shocked to see believe that liberals accomplished something worthwhile in the past while completely oblivious to the purpose or merit of 21st century liberalism
Noah Fisher
>implying being liberal and progressive isn't just a matter of paying lip service You know, like Hollywood etc.
Ian Cooper
see someone believe**
Adrian Bell
>these kind of stories as having no place in superhero comics
It might be too late now in the hyper-politicized world of SJW and Alt-Right, two sides of the same shitty coin who view everything through a political lens. Giving into one is inviting attacks from the other.
Xavier Phillips
>They could call themselves conservatives! They really could. Liberals have become every bit as insufferably prudish and dogmatic as Fundamental Christians can be. Only, liberals are backed by big corporations that make up and control the establishment and want to push for open borders and more Diverse markets.
Asher Rodriguez
To me it's less what they're trying to accomplish today as opposed to yesterday, and more their current methods and the massive echo chamber that reinforces and magnifies every little thing into this deafening cacophony of whiny self righteous noise. There are a few worthwhile messages but Marvel doesn't have what it takes to shine light on them. In trying to cater to the noise machine they just become part of the petulant reactionary throng.
Jordan King
>backpedaling
Grayson Butler
>my candidate won but I'm still butthurt because he won't exterminate liberals Awww.
Jonathan Bennett
Stop being a faggot, I'm trying to watch Marbel burn.
Jackson Ward
It's a consolation prize. Those liberals you hate so much as a good dog will never be exterminated, but at east we can make Marvel dumb again.
Nathaniel Moore
>It's a Go Vote But It Doesn't Go The Way It Should Have In Real Life comic story
Dylan Scott
they need to kill Kamala
Dylan Howard
>Undo OMD Dude it's been 10 fucking years let it go
Angel Richardson
Different user, user. I'm as left as left gets, Too left to vote for HRC, and I don't go in for iD politcs. Eat the rich? Sign me up. Learn your special pronouns? Put it in your pants and fuck off.
Blake Turner
You're right, so many important civil rights issues remain, like forcing Christians at gunpoint to bake cakes for gay weddings, and letting in unlimited amounts of right wing theocratic Muslims, and forcing employers to pay women more than men.
Daniel Gutierrez
>Except in the 40s, the 50s, the 60s...
They had a slight political bent in SOME stories that is a false equivalency faggot
Luke Taylor
Marvel was sometimes right wing. Iron Man was pretty right wing.
>I think I gave myself a dare. It was the height of the Cold War. The readers, the young readers, if there was one thing they hated, it was war, it was the military....So I got a hero who represented that to the hundredth degree. He was a weapons manufacturer, he was providing weapons for the Army, he was rich, he was an industrialist....I thought it would be fun to take the kind of character that nobody would like, none of our readers would like, and shove him down their throats and make them like him....And he became very popular.[7]
>In his premiere, Iron Man was an anti-communist hero, defeating various Vietnamese agents.
Spider-man railed against student protesters. Luke Cage argued with 'Black Panther'-like black power movements. Etc.
Elijah Wood
>he doesn't know what 'propaganda' means There's a difference between leaning to either political side or writing stories about actual relevant social issues.... and what Marvel has been doing for years now; which has been straight up propaganda.
Benjamin Long
>the straight white men are the real victims here
Carson Lopez
>I'm not white trash, I swear!
Tyler Rodriguez
truth of the matter is everyones a victim. White privilege oppressing blacks is as much of a thing as black privilege oppressing whites. Everyone has some advantages and some disadvantages. However, straight white men do produce the most revenue for comic companies so they should cater to them more than the other demographics
Samuel Carter
Tell that to the Punisher.
Dominic Perry
He's just baiting at this point. That or blindly lashing out like an ass blasted child this long after November. Wahhh everyone who doesn't mindlessly drink muh oppreshun Kool-Aid is a Trumptard bigot. This is the kind of shit I'll be glad to see gone from comics.
Nathaniel Edwards
The way marvel does this shit though? That had no place in comics. Even good comic books had an injection of one sided political commentary that was backhanded and didn't add much to the actual story.
And that are on the good books like Captain Falcon. In Champions, they pick a random leftist platitude and run with it for 26 pages. Even if you mindless agree with that shit there isn't anything to it, anyone could write some random ass political commentary without any punch, endgame. Stories lack punch, lack drama when all there is to it is just some political commentary from comic book writers.
Finally, I've seen marvel push their political ideas for what? 2 years? 3 years now? And they all kinda suck. There is no unique vision on it, it's barebones lefty American mainstream shit that is already plastered everywhere in media, so not even that is unique.
They are replacing drama and stories with "Muh political views" and said political views are pedestrian and mainstream as fuck. It's BORING as shit if you agree with them and a midly annoyance if you disagree.
Don't believe me? Sales speak for themselves. The problem isn't being political, the problem is telling a good story that engages with the audience and marvel has been replacing that with political shit.
Parker Adams
I love reading marvel from that time. Yes it had political commentary, but the stories knew that a dose of action, colorful characters and a structure plot was what brought in the readers.
Andrew Ward
Actually, user, I am white trash. What, now?
Carter Robinson
BP's intro as political, sure, but the story itself had no real politics. I guess if you we're a pro colonial euro, Klaw might have seemed like a jab, but even that seems a stretch to me.
Jaxon Diaz
...
Ryan Jenkins
If one contestant consistently wins races, and the judges decide to break one of his legs to make it fair for the other contestants, and he still wins all the races anyway because he's just that good... The judges are still oppressing him.
Justin Lee
I wonder who's behind this sudden change of hearth...
Tyler Butler
>Maybe fans wish for a time when they didn’t realise their superhero comics had political elements? Maybe fans wish for a time when comics didn't constantly have incredibly hamfisted and awkwardly written political messages
Ian Butler
>And last week’s Marvel creative summit I am told by well connected sources who have proved themselves in that past there was more of a focus on what DC Comics internally called “meat and potatoes” comics that preceded their doubling down on the popular characters and bringing back old favourite takes with DC Rebirth. >I am told to expect that Secret Empire will be a bit of a last hurrah for this kind of storytelling from Marvel for a while.
Nick Spencer on
SUICIDE WATCH U I C I D E
W A T C H
Carter Sanders
Those in the middle are perfect for reaction images.
