This

This.

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youtu.be/R0QPCS4a84k?t=10m22s
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fuck off retard

>twitter rant that maybe 200 people read

I love it when people spread their shitty arguments over 20 twitter posts.

Go make me 300 sandwiches, bitch

Literally no counterargument.

Maybe it's because guys and girls write their self-inserts differently. When a guy self-inserts, they're extremely powerful, but they're edgy and aren't usually well-liked except by a few girls who want to fuck him. When a girl self-inserts, her character usually has almost no discernible traits and is loved by absolutely everyone except for the bad guys, and even then the bad guys will often turn to the good side because of her. Mary Sue is just a far better term to use for female self-inserts.

I would honest to God bet dollars to donuts that a woman originally coined Mary Sue.

Queeny Love is the superior Queen

Luke got his ass kicked in ANH and ESB, constantly having to be bailed out by his friends and vice versa. There was camaraderie there.

Rey never needs help with anything. Bland character, Mary Sue or not.

this idiot never heard the term Gary Stu before?

>it acknowledges gender

Amazing point.

Have you guys even read it, or did you just shorten your comprehension of the points presented to "Mary Sue and sexism", and defaulted to your usual response without actually reading the rest?

>validity depends on how many people saw it

>anime profile pic

How do you logically counter an emotional argument?

i'm not sure what this turbo bitch is talking about but i define a mary sue simply as:
>someone who faces no adversity to get to where they are
and it has less to do with the fact that i need backstory and to see their struggles to believe they're capable of what they do all-screen... no i don't really give a fuck

the fact is if you give me a character that has gone through no adversity and is just making shit happen because 'reasons' then i've lost all investment in the story

the OT does this right, the prequels do this right, disney just loves throwing powerful characters on screen for no fucking reason, as if they're picked out of a video game

why do you think kylo-ren is the most liked and talked about character in the prequels? he's legit the ONLY main character who has gone through shit, has seen some shit, and is a stronger, more calculated person because of it

story writing 101 dumbfucks

People have been criticizing Superman for being a perfect "Mary sue" for years

sigh wish i could go back to those halcyon teen nights of beating off to erotic fan fiction

Rey is a Mary Sue. Wonder Woman as portrayed in the new movie was, for the most part a Mary Sue (besides her naivety and misunderstanding the real world, which eventually turned out to be completely true anyway).

The way these "writers" write these "realistic" women is just a breeding ground for female power fantasies. Women want to cling to this dumbfounded and obviously wrong idea that they are smarter than men, more emotionally sound and reasonable than men, and are more likeable than men. The validity of this is obviously debatable, however these "realistic" portrayals also go beyond this and try to overstep their boundaries so that women are, in addition to the previous set of qualities, also physically stronger and more skilled at fighting than men, are better at piloting/driving than men, and are more competent at completing tasks than men. These are all the ingredients to a Mary Sue.

They don't want the female to have any flaws because they're too busy thinking of the character as a role model for women, and as a mascot for feminism, yet they immediately resort to shutting down this criticism with allegations of sexism.

...

Emily Blunt in Sicario is the only instance of a realistic women tbhsenpai

Also the prostitute in Blade Runner 2049.

These bitches never heard the phrase "Gary Stu"? Why the fuck engage a topic if you don't even care to educate yourself on its history first?

inb4 "I'm cherrypicking the history I want to bring up because history is a white heteropatriarchal construct meant to oppress SJW cunts like me"

bait thread and you all disappoint me

kill yourself

This.

Maybe Luke didn't catch hell because he got dunked on for the movies and worked hard for his little victories. Another character was effortlessly good at everything for no reason. Wonder why that character drew complaints about bad writing. But hey, crying sexism just resolves everything.

I don't even like Star Wars and know that Luke wasn't a Gary Stu. If he was he'd have mastered his training with Yoda in a few days then kicked Vaders ass instead of whining a bunch, getting impatient and fucking off to getting beaten like a runty dog.

>luke
>gets his ass kicked every fight until yoda trains him

>rey
>already the best fighter in the galaxy with zero training

Barely anyone uses "Gary Stu", and you know it. In fact, you hear "Mary Sue isn't sexist cause Gary Stu is a thing" more often than you hear a male character called a "Gary Stu".
Even the original Twitter addresses that, recognizing a male version of the term being a thing. It just barely gets used, while "Mary Sue" always gets rolled out whenever a skilled female protagonist comes up.

what did rey lose and what was her motivation for even joining this conflict?

luke lost his family, his home, his father-figure, his friends in ships, all within the first film

this should raise 1000 red flags

it's kind of like how people call girls tomboys where as a boy is a queer

Been thinking a lot about how I can shoehorn this thing into a gender thing I can bitch about.

"""""carolyn""""" petit is the most disgusting human in existance.
just try to imagine this abomination shirtless.

Who does the fella on the left think he's fooling?

>B-but Luke is a Mary Sue too!
Really? He's literally shit at everything until Ben teaches him how to use the force and helps him blow up the Death Star. Luke would not have been able to do that otherwise. And when he faced Darth Vader he got his shit kicked in. Only in the final movie did he turn into a badass.

>sexism Sexism SEXISM
It has no meaning anymore. It's been beaten into oblivion. Nobody cares about this psychosis shit, stop promoting it.

That sarkeesian avatar is fine she isn't as repulsive as people try to make her out to be but lmao what is that ugly tranny trying to prove

>Queer_Queenie

Trying way too hard.

Gary Stu you fucking idiot

>the 'Luke is also a Mary Sue' argument

no

>"Mary Sue" always gets rolled out whenever a skilled female protagonist

Rey isn't skilled, she's bullshit.

Daily reminder that Rey has only known about the Force for less than 2 weeks.

Mary Sue also gets rolled out more than Gary because there are more female characters without weaknesses in film than there are males without weaknesses. It wouldn't happen if women were so fragile and constantly in denial about being the physically weaker and more prone to mental illness sex.

...

Because almost every single female character is a fucking Mary Sue
Literally

>Compare that to one Luke Skywalker, who went through a similar sort of arc
GAS ALL WOMYN
ARIFICAL WOMBS NOW

That's totally wrong. I see "Gary Stu" just as much, or in response to "Mary Sue" accusations. It's a widely accepted term and the two are distinguished because of the slightly different way infallible male and female characters tend to be handled.

...

No, I didn't read it because I don't care about twatter. It's pretty funny that you're dodging what I said though. "Mary Sue" comes from a very specific community of people and I can tell you right now that that community is overwhelmingly female.

Why would anyone need that much Nutella?

The writer says "Marty Stu" which she obviously made up on the spot because I've literally never seen anyone use that phrase because Gary fits better than Marty.

>wonder woman is a Mary Sue
Nearly hired a hit man at this point

Shadilay, shadilay, la mia libertà
Shadilay, shadilay, oh no...
Shadilay, shadilay, oh sogno o realtà
Shadilay, shadilay, oh no...

Alright, so she's:
>Force-sensitive, the Force is strong with her
>She has experience fighting with melee weapons, and is able to transition from her staff to a lightsaber
>Being Force-senstive aids her with mechanic and piloting skills, just like it did with Anakin and Luke
But also:
>Gets owned by Kylo until she focuses and reaches out to the Force
>Only stands a chance because Kylo is emotionally distraught and unfocused, as well as wounded by Chewbacca's bowcaster
>Immediately rejected by Luke despite her downright begging him, needs R2's intervention to get the guy to listen to her at all
>Humiliated and berated by Luke during training
>Has no self-restraint, immediately takes the plunge towards the island's darkness.
>Falls for Snoke's trap like an idiot.
>Gets abused by Snoke with the Force and once again humiliated, needs Kylo to save her sorry ass.

Women are almost always either written as infallible or as victims in film

Men are not

Nice try

You can't be thin AND be a fat activist.

Remember your body is constantly trying to lose weight just by being alive. You have to defeat biology somehow.

Both "Marty" and "Gary" are common use.

I dislike that Wonder Woman is often portrayed as basically a female version of Superman. It feels lazy. I also dislike it when they give Wonder Woman the ability to fly for no reason. Thankfully they didn't do that with the movie version of her.

>activist
>fat
Not Active enough, apparently...

Meant to respond to

And those kinda statements is exactly what OP is talking about.

>opinion of a woman
who cares

>A TREKKIE'S TALE (1974)
>By Paula Smith
>"Gee, golly, gosh, gloriosky," thought Mary Sue as she stepped on the bridge of the Enterprise. "Here I am, the youngest lieutenant in the fleet - only fifteen and a half years old." Captain Kirk came up to her.
>"Oh, Lieutenant, I love you madly. Will you come to bed with me?"
>"Captain! I am not that kind of girl!"
>"You're right, and I respect you for it. Here, take over the ship for a minute while I go get some coffee for us."
>Mr. Spock came onto the bridge. "What are you doing in the command seat, Lieutenant?"
>"The Captain told me to."
>"Flawlessly logical. I admire your mind."

>Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, Dr. McCoy and Mr. Scott beamed down with Lt. Mary Sue to Rigel XXXVII. They were attacked by green androids and thrown into prison. In a moment of weakness Lt. Mary Sue revealed to Mr. Spock that she too was half Vulcan. Recovering quickly, she sprung the lock with her hairpin and they all got away back to the ship.

>But back on board, Dr. McCoy and Lt. Mary Sue found out that the men who had beamed down were seriously stricken by the jumping cold robbies , Mary Sue less so. While the four officers languished in Sick Bay, Lt. Mary Sue ran the ship, and ran it so well she received the Nobel Peace Prize, the Vulcan Order of Gallantry and the Tralfamadorian Order of Good Guyhood.

>However the disease finally got to her and she fell fatally ill. In the Sick Bay as she breathed her last, she was surrounded by Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, Dr. McCoy, and Mr. Scott, all weeping unashamedly at the loss of her beautiful youth and youthful beauty, intelligence, capability and all around niceness. Even to this day her birthday is a national holiday of the Enterprise.

But she still wins.
See, this is the thing that hurts TFA the most: The lack of LOSING or WINNING WITH THE ACTIVE HELP OF ANOTHER is what sets the stage to make Rey look good in every scene.

Here's an alternate way TFA could have ended.
Rey has her little force awakening, Rey and Kylo fight but Rey still loses.
How does this affect the story differently? Now Rey has a much stronger drive to avenge Han and seek out Luke. She has a personal rivalry with Kylo and a grudge that could be the basis of her comparable temptation to the dark side.

You've also set up Kylo as a credible villain, since you see his capability to actually beat people in 1-1 combat. So now you have a villain you're afraid of, who we know means business when he's on the scene and not a fucking joke because he looks like a child (people literally laughed when he took off his helmet the first time on opening weekend).

You've set up stakes, you've set up a motivation and you're foreshadowing a character's arc. Great, you've set yourself up for success in a franchise!

You get none of these with how the events are executed in TFA as it was.

You mention the Bowcaster shot but if they wanted to accentuate Rey's need for camaraderie, Chewie shouldn't have shot Kylo when he killed Han, just aimed but decide not to do it. Then, when Chewie arrives at Kylo's confrontation with Rey and Finn in the forest, they're both still knocked out but Chewie takes the shot as Kylo's gonna kill Finn, Kylo knocks him out with the force and Rey grabs the lightsaber and they fight.

The entire construction of the fight as it happened is meant to isolate Rey from the other events as much as possible so it seems like she's actually overpowering Kylo. Kylo hitting his wound in the forest is meant to show that he's able to overcome his wound, since he was able to reach the two of them despite leaving later

TLJ addressed some of the Mary Sue complaints but in the TFA it was pretty bad at times.

And both of those characters are often despised.

Puppet guy has a good breakdown. Go to 10:22.
youtu.be/R0QPCS4a84k?t=10m22s

Those kind of statements are true

Are you telling me that female characters are on average written with as many flaws as men? Females are almost never even the villain. Fuck off you cuckold.

Theyll get about twelve more readers here.

Fuck off you tweeting cunt for posting your feces on this knitting board. I hope you die barren.
Here are some terms used widely for males:
Neanderthal
Brute
Asshole
An hero
Scumbag
Choad
Tool
Wanker
Dick
Prick
Shithead
Bastard
Jerk
Cock
White knight
Creep
Fag
Dunce

you spelled chode wrong

But it's true, if she has a problem with it maybe she should take it up with the people who make these movies instead of the people who are merely noticing an obvious pattern and pointing it out
Who are the real sexists here? The people who refuse to create believable female characters who can succeed in their respective universes on their own merits, or the people who want to see female characters succeed on their own merits?
Do you get mad at somebody reporting a rape and ignore the rapist?

The “choad” (also spelled “chode,” or, rarely, “chaod”) is, by its anatomically contradictory definition, a very complex species. The choad is technically the perineum, or “taint”: a ~1.5 inch area of patchy flesh between the scrotum and anus (women have these too, but such area serves no character symbolism). While there is nothing inherently wrong with the choad, the attribution has evolved into an undesirable thing, perhaps due to an odor incurred by its vicinity. There are also those who assert that a choad is actually a penis which is as wide as it is long, with an implicit comment about its short length. We don’t need to explain why this is a bad thing.

Gary Stu is for male character.

No. Too-prefect author-insert characters have always been a general problem in writing. Creative Writing teachers have a big job knocking that shit out of their students.

What the Mary Sue was about, was the rise of scumblr-level internet fanfic. Which was majority the domain of nerdy female writers.

It's gynocentric, because it's a largely modern female phenomenon online.
Because A: there are no creative writing teacher to slap that shit out of them.
and B: women online cry like stuck pigs whenever anyone criticizes them.

That a female-centric outlet lead the charge against Mary Sue-ism should be a clue that it's specifically female issue, that even other females can't stand, and only other females are allowed to make a fuss about.

except that luke did nothing impressive at all until episode 6, he couldn't make any trick and was constantly shown as the weakest force user, he just defeated Vader because the fag was holding back and got stomped by Palpatine 10 seconds later.

>is like sexist as fuck

Sounds kind of, like, she's stupid as, like, fuck.

Took me a full minute to figure out why there was two drawn women under a real woman and man.

Seriously I have nothing against trans people but for fucks sake put some effort into actually LOOKING like the gender you want to be. If a bunch of guys can pull of a female look for cam shows you can do it too.

Kyle Katarn is a Mary Sue. Starkiller is a Mary Sue. This weeb needs to shut the fuck up.

It was a girl who wrote an ironic fanfiction for a magazine

Honestly, you could just call it a "Hero Sue". You get to criticize bad writing, and be clear of any sexist implications.

Meant for

These are your own tweets arent they lol

I agree that Rey wasn’t a Mary Sue in TLJ, that was literally the only thing the movie had going for it. She was a absolutely a Mary Sue in TFA though.

Oh god I hated Starkiller. This guy is more powerfuller than Vader, he can pull a Star Destroyer from space onto a planet and he starts the rebellion and uses his family crest as the symbol.

Not op but you’re missing the point.

So... the chick who wrote about Lt. Mary Sue was a sexist?
Okay.
Your ideology is so fucking fucked you couldn't Unfuck it with an Unfucking machine designed to unfuck fucked ideologies.

Anyone remember when the phrase Mary Sue began spreading like wild fire across this retarded site? This site has had the arguments which these retards are having complaining about the usage of the term. The term is still used and no one cares. It's why Twitter and """"reasonable"""" """""intellectual"""" people cannot comprehend the retarded shit that Sup Forums culture spawns because they try a reasoned approached unaware we have transcended reason into pure shitposting and no one gives a fricken hoot about their well argued points.

"here's an 8 post long strawman that ignores the argument that rey is a mary sue in favour of dissecting a fucking phrase, checkmate bigots."

Who called wonder woman a mary sue? She's the chosen one, yes, but she went through extensive training, fails, is naive and played by a lanky goblin.

I always thought it was Max Landis

Mary Sue is used as the original reference was to a female character and remains linked to poorly written female characters. Gary Stu's exist as a male counter part. The thing is female characters tend to be poorly written more then male characters, thus why Mary Sue is more common. This isnt just female authors who write these bad characters, male writers are just as capable of making the same mistakes.

Also the term originated from fan-fiction which has a much higher ratio of female writers then men and thus it is more likely to lead to Mary Sues over Gary Stus.

Arguing it is sexist and gendered is stupid as the whole point of having the terms Mary Sue and Gary Stu is to differentiate between a poorly written female character and a poorly written male, it is simply the fact there are more female characters who fit the archetype of Mary Sue then males who fit Gary Stu criteria. It is no different then the term That Guy and That Girl, both exist but That Guy is used more often as you are more likely to encounter more men who fit the category then women.

>She has experience fighting with melee weapons, and is able to transition from her staff to a lightsaber
This is the most retarded thing I've seen today, and I went to work today. Congrats.
>If you're basically only trained in staff-based combat, you can easily learn two-handed and one-handed fencing in a day without further training
>Using an axe is the same as using a hammer
>Using both hands for a bastard sword means you're just as proficient in dual short sword use

Male Mary Sues are rare, because you can write flawed male characters without people calling you sexist. Pic related.

Whoever wrote that us spot fucking on
Big problem with the generation of sjw complainers is, I reckon, they legitimately think what they are saying is correct
We have raised kids in this ducked up society and now it's the norm to think anything that THEY feel is wrong IS WRONG
If I think it's true then it is
No argument fuck you

While women act like little children they will always remain the weaker sex.
True emancipated woman are the absolute exception.

>Rey barely has any flaws in the first film, to the point where they have to make the next episode full of everyone failing so people can go "see she's not Mary Sue :)))"
>Luke eats shit all throughout ANH and only succeeds because of his comrades and is only called a Gary Stu because retards can't make proper arguments as to why Rey is a shot character
These shitty mouseposters need to die.

Are you describing sjws or Sup Forums?

Who would win; The Immovable Gary stew, or The Unstoppable Mary Sue?

The dapper white knight

The critics.

>what was her motivation for even joining this conflict
she want a pappa and a mamma