To someone with as much formal training as he had, Zuko was kind of a little bitch. Katara with less than a year of training was at his level, Toph would stomp him undoubtedly and Aang bested him at every opportunity. Aang at the start of the series might be stronger than Zuko at the end.
Zuko practically only had an edge against nameless mooks. "Lucky to be born" indeed.
Zuko had average talent. That was the point. He trained hard to pass his sister who was a genius.
He just needed that someone to give him positive motivation and balance out the anger in him.
>He trained hard to pass his sister
He probably died without accomplishing it.
And he never managed to do that either. He had an edge on her in their final fight, only because she was completely unhinged.
Zuko himself said it best,
>She was born lucky
>I was lucky to be born
Why did the art change so much in the second season? Why did they make zuko a twink in the last two season too? He was ripped in season 1
...anyone else think it was kinda hot when he knocked out Katara?
Aang was the friggin' Avatar and Katara, Toph, and Azula were super prodigies who were all the strongest benders of their respective element of their generation. Zuko does well just to keep up with them at all.
>Why did they make zuko a twink in the last two season too? He was ripped in season 1
the villain always gets nerfed when he joins your party
>Zuko does well just to keep up with them at all.
He should at least be more impressive than Mako, practically a self-taught homeless.
The guy is the fucking Fire Lord.
I always explained it as Zuko having lost muscle mass while starving floating on a raft in the middle of the ocean with Iroh or struggling across the continent as a refugee. It's hard to maintain muscle mass, takes good eating, and he didn't have that for a long time so it makes sense to me he was thinner.
I love the not so subtle jabs by the writers at talent versus hard work.
Seems like someone on the writing team loved eugenics a bit too much.
I mean seriously that garbage with lol your grand-grandfather on your mother's side was the avatar, therefore you're good.
Lol your grand-grandfather on your father's side was the fire lord, therefore you're evil.
And it wasn't handled in a "you can choose to be either good or evil". It was handled in "Zuko is naturally good, that's why he's so bad at being evil and that's why Azula is so good at it".
It would be funny if Azula inherited all that raw talent because of the avatar's genes, while Zuko inherited the shitty fire lord genes.
Yet another contrast between Aang and Katara.
Or Roku and Sozin.
Give me my satan quads!!!
I think Ozai pointed out the same thing. Zuko sucks at bending for his level of training/genetics.
But he's a good kid deep down. Bit whiny, but decent. And decent at bending too, all said and done.
Lot of behavior is tied up in genetics tbf. Lots of talent is also in genetics (environment also matters, insofar as you need a certain amount of nutrition etc).
>while Zuko inherited the shitty fire lord genes.
But both Iroh and Ozai were monsters. You can't put the blame on their side.
There's also the spiritual aspects of things.
They did show that about the twins, despite sharing the same genes only one of them had earth bending skills while the other did not.
And rub his face in her huge titties.
Could Lavabender Bolin take Fire Lord Zuko down?
That's kinda embarrassing.
Zuko wasn't angry enough to be good fire bender.
Fire comes from the breath, kiddo.
His grandson has amazing talent, at least.
They certainly did it better than that other show that was about mystic notninjas.
The power levels kind of skyrocketed in Korra.
He was able to match her in Southern Raiders
>He was ripped in season 1
He was ripped in season 3 too
Mako was trained by Lightning Bolt Zolt of the Triple Threat Triads
He spent like a whole season on the run practically starving.
Katara was a prodigy
Toph was a prodigy
Aang was a prodigy
Zuko was average, but had one of the best teachers in the Fire Nation. And because of that, he could at least keep up.
Zuko is the biggest jobber of the franchise, he'd find a way to lose.
If anything it's the opposite since they had to do more subdued bending due to the mostly urban setting. Just compare the shit Toph did in The Earth King to any of Lin's fights.
It's just that bloodbending and lavabending are way too fucking OP.
He had no natural talent for the style of firebending that was dominant in his culture, which relied on drawing power from being a nasty piece of shit, and was basically trying to force a square peg into a round hole. He powered up a lot once he adopted a more appropriate philosophy towards life and by extension bending.
A prostitute will give him sex, which is the same thing.
Aang was the avatar, not a prodigy. And Katara just had a proper master while 99% of the population didn't.
>And Katara just had a proper master while 99% of the population didn't.
She quickly out performed all of the water bending students at the North Pole and became a Master herself
Zukos talent wasn't bad. He just wasn't made to use the fire nations method of anger. Once he went and learned from a dragon with Aang the true way to fire bend, he quickly caught back up and surpassed his sister.
>Katara just had a proper master while 99% of the population didn't.
Come on, she surpassed all of Pakku's experienced students with about two weeks of training and she defeated the person that discovered how to bloodbend by just watching her do it once.
It's clear that Katara is meant to be really good.
Aang was a prodigy airbender even accounting for being an Avatar. He became the youngest airbending master in history.
>She quickly out performed all of the water bending students at the North Pole
most of them were kids
>became a Master herself
Debatable. She is very clearly not at the level of a master, even by the end of the show. It is unlikely she could defeat her teacher, for example, or any other master class bender. It highly depends on what you call "master". They say very often that Aang 'mastered all elements', however by the end of the show they recognize Aang is not so good at earthbending and firebending. Being a 'master' might as well just mean 'able to control the elements'.
>Aang was the avatar, not a prodigy
Be was the Avatar AND a prodigy.
He became the youngest person to have ever mastered all airbending moves so fast and then he added his own move to its catalog.
Aang was the Air Nomad to become an airbending master in history. Katara destroyed an iceberg through sheer anger in the first 5 minutes of the series, and once started training under Pakku she skyrocketed past his other students and became the best.
*youngest
>Jin missed her chance with Zuko
>still wants sum Fire Royalty Fuk
>puts on her war paint and hunts Azula down in the wilds
>turns out Jin is some kind of ninja savant whose powers are only unlocked when she's on the prowl for sex
>also turns out that all Azula needed to make her sane again was to be repeatedly muff-punched by an EK girl with giant tits
I'd buy that for a dollar.
why did no airbender ever figure out normal flight anyway? They always needed that glider then when Oozai just went lmao rocket jets and that guy who literally never airbended in his life mastered flight in 2 seconds
>she surpassed all of Pakku's experienced students
all kids
>she defeated the person that discovered how to bloodbend
1- Hama wasn't the first bloodbender, she just discovered how to bloodbend. If anything, by not having a bloodbend master helping her, her bloodbend was weak.
2- Hama wasn't really that good of a WATERbender, and that's what the fight is about in the end.
Everyone that had an actual master is supposed to be good, as opposed to 99% of other benders without a master.
>Aang was a prodigy airbender even accounting for being an Avatar
he was a prodigy airbender Because of the avatar. Avatar knowledge is not something he can just shut off; that's why he learned waterbending so fast.
they couldn't enter the void
also Hama kind of wanted Katara to win since it would mean Katara would learn bloodblending. I mean the only way anyone ever really beats a bloodbender is by surprise attack or if they let you win
There's a philosophical reason behind the ability to fly, at least through airbending. You can't have any attachment to earth, nothing holding you down. After the death of his girlfriend, Zaheer didn't have anything.
yeah but they were airbending monks, they're literally all buddhists who threw away all earthly attachments to live in a dusty temple with other bald guys
>Aang was the Air Nomad to become an airbending master in history
yes, BECAUSE he had the past lives helping him learn. The same happened with waterbending.
>Katara destroyed an iceberg through sheer anger
She caused it to crack, it's different, and it's not pointed out to be anything more significant than that. Also, even screaming near a snow mountain can cause an avalanche. It's like saying an earthbender that moved a rock to start a reaction that ended up destroying a mountain is strong enough to destroy a mountain himself.
Starting at a young age, Air Nomad children begin travelling around the world. None of them would want to detach themselves from the world after seeing so much amazing shit in it.
I assume since they still cared about there students they could not fly
>the only way anyone ever really beats a bloodbender is by surprise attack or if they let you win
You can literally overcome bloodbending by not being a total faggot. Even a half faggot was able to do it.
>he was a prodigy airbender Because of the avatar
Roku at the age of 16 wasn't especially gifted the way Aang at the age of 12 was.
not to mention Kora was triple bending at age 5 or some shit
The avatar knowledge doesn't trigger at the same age for everyone. Korra was able to bend 3 elements at 4 years old, without even getting training. She wasn't a prodigy, she just received help.
They had each other.
You do realize the entire series takes place in like 9 months, right? Katara's sum progress through the show is amazing.
>why did no airbender ever figure out normal flight anyway
because Zaheer needed to be a special snowflake, so despite being clearly driven by his ideals he was able to get good at bending in two weeks, and then fly.
>Zaheer didn't have anything
Then why was he trying to kill Korra?
>Katara's sum progress through the show is amazing.
It's hard to say when they mostly fight people without any training. Literally anyone can join the FN army. I just think it made her look stronger than she actually is.
But Korra still needed 10 years of training to master these three. And even then, I wouldn't say that Korra with her three elements was more skilled than Aang using just air.
Agreed. Korra is a strong bender, but her skill is a little above average at the most. It still took her years to master the three elements she could actually access.
Korra was filled with the stupidest, goofiest most OP villains. Kuvira was the only one worth anything.
I don't know about that, Mako only managed to wrest control back for like a second to get off one of his instant lightning attacks, it's not like he was fighting it off permanently like Aang did with the AS.
The Dai Li start training as kids.
Anyone has the tier list that an user posted here days ago?
>Korra still needed 10 years of training to master these three
Aang needed 10 years of training to master one.
> I wouldn't say that Korra with her three elements was more skilled than Aang using just air
She probably wasn't. Has to do with how much the avatar knowledge can help you. It was noticeable that Aang had a hard time learning water, and Katara even surprassed him at some point. Being the avatar helps, it just doesn't help all the way.
I like Zaheer. He makes Korra look so inept and useless as avatar. I think world would be better without avatar.
>Then why was he trying to kill Korra?
Consider it a moral obligation more than a goal.
a half faggot can get seconds. A non-faggot will get minutes.
>The Dai Li start training as kids
they lost to the dai li
>Aang needed 10 years of training to master one.
And 9 months to master three
Katara managed to fend off several of them.
world be better if the fire nation won desu
Same shit. Even that autistic yelling he made at the end when he was captured shows how he wasn't able to let go of anything. This is ridiculous; You're telling monks that trained decades to 'let go', stucked in a temple, weren't able to achieve flight, but a guy that is is driven by his goals after 12 years imprisoned, and had a GIRLFRIEND, can do it?
Mako is just bullshit all around though so it's really a fair comparison.
I remember they put Toph on the second tier and put Azula above Katara even though Katara defeated Azula. So whatever.
Maybe goals arent "earthly"
Over generations they forgot the cloudwalking skill that their ancestors knew on the Lion Turtle
That flying nimbus shit was better than flight
>Once he went and learned from a dragon with Aang the "true" way to fire bend, he quickly went back to being exactly the same as before and still almost lost to his sister when it was two against one.
Fix'd.
Are you mad that I can lightbender without dancing while you're a hack, Fire Lord Zuko?
>master three
He didn't master any of them, on the general sense. Toph herself says he sucks at earthbending by the end of the show.
and in the end was defeated. Buying time doesn't mean you are of the same ability.
That said i should point out that there is a spiritual element to bending; some people ARE more powerful than others, without that meaning some sort of 'genius'. They are just born powerful for whatever reason, like some people are born physically stronger than others. Many strong people meeting on the battleground is normal. Belittling this is like saying a character is bad for being really tall and using that in his favor in basketball.
Just because you sit around in a temple all day doesn't mean you're better at letting go than anyone else. And it took his girlfriend dying for him to let go of her, he couldn't fly before that happened.
His last words there were pretty stupid though i agree.
She gave Pakku a hell of a fight before he started training her. And her skills and knowledge progressed enough that Pakku trusted her to train Aang, the last best hope for the world against the Fire Nation
She beat Azula twice, she whupped Dai Li agents,Ty Lee and Mai who'd defeated a ton of Earth Kingdom generals
I'm more mad at Mako being somehow more execptional than anyone else in the series.
>Toph herself says he sucks at earthbending by the end of the show.
Only compared to herself and Bumi. He was easily beating Dai Li soldiers at earthbending in Lake Laogai and The Earth King.
Eh, I have less problems with two street rats, turned into criminals, turned into professional bending MMA fighters becoming really good than rich teenage girls like Asami, Mai and Ty Lee defeating trained soldiers.
She retreated because Aang was shot through the heart with lightning.
Ty Lee was rich?
I also don't have a problem with Mako and Bolin. They were strong, but the others professional benders and triad members were just as strong, with not stronger.
>She gave Pakku a hell of a fight before he started training her
kek, no. He defeated her easily.
>Pakku trusted her to train Aang
not like they had any choice
>She beat Azula twice
once, i believe, and only when Azula was crazy.
>she whupped Dai Li agents
she lost that fight against the Dai Li
>Ty Lee and Mai
If i remember well the two first times they fought, Katara was saved by Appa.
>Only compared to herself and Bumi
She said he needed a lot of work, in both earthbending and firebending. It is also said later that earthbending is the element Aang had more trouble with. He probably never really mastered it.
>He was easily beating Dai Li soldiers at earthbending in Lake Laogai and The Earth King
He lost to other Dai Li soldiers, and he had 3 other elements to help.
Oh yeah that's fine. But they really make a big deal out of how amazing Mako is all the time, even Amon makes a bigger deal out of Makos bending ability than he does Korras and she's the avatar.
>rich teenage girls like Asami, Mai and Ty Lee defeating trained soldiers.
Mai has the stupidest skillset. She apparently practiced throwing knives in her room because she was so bored, and she only targets clothes? At least make her a ninja, dammit.
People are still salty about the Mako-wanking in Book 1, I see. He really doesn't do much after it.
>She retreated because Aang was shot through the heart with lightning
He was shot in the heart with lightning because he tried to save her from being killed by them. Iroh had to help cover their escape.
Yeah he gets much better after book 1.
To be fair, Mako's somehow a better overall fighter than Korra. Korra just has more raw power and elements.
>Amon makes a bigger deal out of Makos bending ability
I always saw that comment as Amon telling Korra "neener-neener-neener Imma take your boyfriend's bending"
>not like they had any choice
Pakku could have gone with them on Appa as they went to find Bumi in the Earth Kingdom.
>once, i believe, and only when Azula was crazy.
Underneath Ba Sing Se, Azula needed to be saved by Zuzu
>she lost that fight against the Dai Li
She fought them several times, and only lost when she had to retreat when Azula shot Aang in the back and she was overwhelmed by like 2 dozen Dai Li agents who kept getting reinforcements
I just don't think he should be, she is the avatar, apperently a prodigy aswell and had the (pressumably) best teachers available to her, while he's a street kid and a decent pro-bending athlete.
>Pakku could have gone with them
If he could, he would. He clearly had to stay, or else he would make helping the avatar his top priority.
>Azula needed to be saved by Zuzu
you mean when Katara and Aang were 2x1 her. Katara had to be saved by Aang as well.
>She fought them several times
How many times alone?
>he gets much better after book 1.
"Better" is relative.
After the season one wanking, he didn't have too much going on for him. Bolin's arcs progressed more and were even more important to the overall plot.
Well by better i meant he become less annoying and less of a douche. I remember alot of people hated him after book 1 but got over it as the seasons progressed.