Sup Forums BTFO

Sup Forums BTFO

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why is this political at all
people don't like star wars because its a bad movie

>retarded admiral decides to not tell the crew anything and lets the entire fleet get destroyed before finally doing something she could have done hours ago

>doing literally nothing while waiting for death for 18 hours
you'd think she'd have time to explain why they aren't just waiting around to die

ugh... she just didn't want to mansplain to them

>"I don't have to explain my plan! I'd rather look completely incompetent and lost to a crew of people who just met me!"

>But sir-
>That's an order, captain!

>lmao, just announce to everyone where we're going to hide after the enemy fleet somehow managed to follow us from hyperspace, who cares that the reason they knew could just as well an enemy spy among our crew!
JUST

>That's an order!
>Then I resign my commission

>lets 95% of what's left of her troops die
>kill herself so she won't have to live with the guilt

really made me think

When her Captain is a legendary war hero who destroyed a Mega Death Star and a Dreadnought literally 5 minutes before and is literally loved and respected by Princess Leia.

Also when specifically asked an admiral will usually tell HIS crew whats up when literally all their lives on are on the line.

If the story had been not lazy they would've given Holdo a reason to distrust Poe.....................................................................

If the captain is a popular war-hero with the power to destabilize your authority if he doesn't like what you're doing, and you're a good CO even a little, you at least fucking TRY TO GET HIM ON YOUR SIDE. Fuck.

If you're an officer, the number one thing you do is make and distribute plans. Want to know how I know this guy has never done anything related to the military?
Especially when you're in a shitty situation. Especially when your command is reduced to like two hundred people. Especially when it looks like all hope is lost, you need, need, need to ensure your subordinates know what's going on so they don't feel abandoned.
Yes I mad.

And why would she have any reason not to tell Poe in private?

He is a legendary war hero and Leia trusted him with her life...

She doesn't need to, but in that situation it would be wise to, so why didn't she explain it when asked?

He's right, though. Poe was a lunatic in this movie.

>why is this political at all
>people don't like star wars because its a bad movie
they dont care that its bad because there are womyn in it.

>doesn't tell her crew her plan despite them LITERALLY DYING
>the guys who mutinied are somehow presented as being in the wrong

>Want to know how I know this guy has never done anything related to the military?

I assume everyone that voted "turns out, never" never did anything related to the military too?

there's no reason she couldn't trust poe. He single-handedly disabled a dreadnought and led to it's destruction. His main character flaw is that he's too quick to attack the enemy. Spies don't willingly destroy their allies as much as poe has. She had every opportunity to explain herself in private. She never once conceded that she had a plan, even during the mutiny. For all poe knew, she was resigning the entire rebellion to death without fighting. She hasnt even been a leader that long, she's leader by default. No one joined the rebellion to follow her, so she knows her grasp on her soldiers is tenuous at best.
The logical thing to do is to make sure the only person that could effectively usurp her was on her side.

Every option in the poll is aids.

If she values following orders blindly so much, she should join the First Order, not the rebels.

He's also reckless as fuck, and could fuck it up by telling it to some people he shouldn't, who then tell other people who shouldn't be told about it.

In fact, that's exactly what he did. That's exactly how DJ came to know of the plan, and that's exactly the info he gave to the First Order.

>When does an admiral need to explain her orders to a captain?

When hundreds of comrades start pointlessly dying.
To prevent a mutiny
To build trust and cohesion a between a fractured group of stressed soldiers

I don't know pick one

That's just it. People dislike the movie because it's bad. And because it's bad, people who (for whatever reason) like it don't have a leg to stand on. So they defend it with fabricated politics.

I still don't understand how Poe didn't know what she was doing. How did he not notice half the ship getting ready for an evacuation? Wouldn't someone mention that to him like in the hall or something? Even if he didn't an evacuation is the kind of strategy you have to tell people about in advance, you can't keep it a secret and expect it too work out. I mean were they just gonna wait until the last minute before telling him? Were they going to leave him to die? It's not like he was the only guy who didn't trust her anyway, enough people apparently didn't know about this plan somehow to go along with a fucking mutiny, including a bridge officer who was standing next to Admiral Holdo the whole movie and also somehow never noticed her plan even though logically she would have had to have heard them or been ordered to help arrange this evacuation herself. This entire fucking plot makes no sense.

poe is reckless but he's not retarded. If she explained that she was afraid of spies, he could have kept his mouth shut. Him being insubordinate directly lead to the destruction of her plan.
Ending the argument with your rank is one thing, but keeping your trusted leaders in the dark is another. She made zero effort to diffuse a loose cannon, and he went off.

I'd imagine so. This "lol I'm in charge I don't need to explain shit" thing wouldn't fly in a structured military organization, and it sure as fuck wouldn't fly in a loosely organized rebellion where charisma and personal leadership are even more important than they are in a more formalized rank structure.

It's like they've never been in a position of authority, so they don't realize that "management" is a skill that mostly relies on one's ability to delegate.

An Admiral doesn't HAVE to brief a captain anything, but basic military doctrine dictates that they would 100% of the time in this sort of situation. Most likely it would get passed down to the lowest level very quickly (privates, ensigns, whatever).

Troop Leading Procedure:

Receive Mission
ISSUE A WARNING ORDER
Make a Tentative Plan
Start Movement
Reconaissance
Complete Plan
ISSUE THE OPERATIONS ORDER
Supervise

You don't just drop shit on your soldiers/seamen randomly.

t. US Army officer

>Bosun's whistle sounds
>"Personnel of the Resistance Fleet, we are currently being pursued by an Imperial fleet, but do not worry, I have a plan. It will require all of you to strive tirelessly and faithfully to our cause, but I can assure you that the Resistance will survive this fight. Admiral Holdo out."

wow issue fixed, it has nothing to do with her being a purple haired retard and everything to do with the entire plot hinging on people making absolutely ridiculous mistakes of communication tv drama style

When does an admiral need to sacrifice their whole fleet?

When she's a woman.
When he's a protagonist.
When it's frustrating.
Turn out, never.

Because she's not wise nor does she "know how to deal with flyboys like yourself"
So either Rian wrote a shitty female character with purple hair and made her dumb on purpose or he just did it to not sink his mess of a movie plot wise.
I'd be surprised there aren't a multitude of purple haired bitches screaming at him on Twitter. But apparently he characterized them perfectly.

>And because it's bad, people who (for whatever reason) like it don't have a leg to stand on. So they defend it with fabricated politics.
Yes, and "the Force is female" or "Holdo and Claudia Gray" memes toootally aren't the most common Star Wars-related images submitted to Sup Forums right now. The hate of TLJ toootally isn't politically motivated at all. It's just fabrications, duh!

That screenshot/pasta that gets posted on here occasionally is starting to make a lot of sense. Women just assume having leadership means they're 100% immune to criticism and everyone has to obey. But that's actually how you ~lose~ leadership positions. Women assume getting jettisoned for incompetence is misogyny when in fact its prudence.

Yeah far greater risk than telling the reckless person that I essentially have no plan, wont like he'll run off and do something reckless right?

He knew that they were leaving in transports, he didn't know they'd be staying on Crait.

>When does an admiral need to explain her orders?
Correct answer:
When they've been forced to post guards to prevent desertion, when the crew are showing signs of open, public insubordination and probably about to outright mutiny.

Especially if these symptoms are because the crew think the Admiral (regardless of gender) is incompetent and said incompetence is about to get everyone slaughtered.

SHE DIDN'T EVEN NEED TO EXPLAIN HER PLAN THOUGH. SHE JUST NEEDED TO TELL POE THAT THERE WAS INDEED A PLAN IN PLACE. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

what's this in reference to/

Her orders were to prepare to evacuate to a nearby abandoned planet. Unless she was planning to leave him to die on the ship, yes those are the kind of orders an admiral has to explain to a captain, and a lieutenant, and a private, and literally fucking everyone on the ship they intend to get off.

Admirals don't need to explain orders, but they do need to explain strategies and plans for those lacking in basic military education.

you don't ensure that your attack dog loose cannon doesn't go autonomous by shoving them away, you bring them close even if everything you say is a lie. Honestly who the fuck made this call for the plot, it reeks of little to no command ability or experience on a character who is portrayed as a competent leader.

>her

Excuse me?

The crew did know. The only ones who didn't were Poe and the two aliens who were only listening to him

Also what the fuck kind of Admiral doesn't brief her subordinate leadership with a fucking warno when faced with complete annihilation? That's not how military leadership works, one person doesn't just sit on a plan until they decide to reveal it at the last minute.

I mean, maybe if they had rehearsed and gone over the evacuation plan, it would have gone better?

>assuming any of the Jews who made this movie ever came within 100 miles of a Navy or Army base

>when does an officer whose sole purpose is to lead a ship have to give the crew any directions at all
hmmmmm

it's not about an Admiral explaining to a Captain. It's about Disney explaining to viewers why this character that they have never seen before and acts like a cunt should be liked over they characters they already established.

>t. literal Pablo
You're not even hiding it anymore, Sup Forums

Admirals do need to explain orders, briefing warning orders and operations orders is half of their job

Just plot convenience for Poe's character arc.

The level of plot convenience of a shitty romcom or a fucking soap opera.

Yup. Every single successful military leader in history has relied heavily on their subordinates to make sure things go according to plan. Hal Moore or Horatio Nelson or Rommel didn't have the stunning military success they did just because of personal genius.
This actually could have been a really good scene. Poe comes to her in private and they have a bit of a shouting match about how the crew is losing hope, and the admiral goes to the PA system. You could cut around the ship to show disheartened crew pausing their work to listen.
Sup fellow Alpha.

They didn't. But that doesn't mean they couldn't have found an experienced military officer or two as assistants to writers in a bunch of sci-fi movies that are pretty much "Space Military Wars - The Movies"

You at Fort Hood?

>that are pretty much "Space Military Wars - The Movies"
They're space operas, dumb faggot.

This is the equavilant of a carrier battlegroup commander, usually an O-7 or O-8, not telling his air wing commander, an O-6, his plans.

Lacks the option "when she has a fucking mutiny on her hands, because half the remaining crew doesn't trust her command."

That revolve around military wars, you chucklefuck, which require at least some military knowledge to pull off the basic shit that every warring life-form in the universe would have in common even in alternate dimensions.

>deleting tumblr from the filename
>not even downloading the full resolution
Sad!

Shitty militaries actually function that way, since top brass are picked for loyalty rather than ability and people who show initiative are considered dangerous because they might lead a coup someday.
It would make more sense for the Empire to function like this.

>according to our polls, Hillary has a 98% chance of winning the election

>has wars in title since 70's
>literally every single film has a big fucking space and land battle in it
>space operas
mcfucking kill yourself imbecile

DELET

I don't think Rian had anything to do with it, there was a whole plethora of dumb cunts hired for 'diversity' purposes in charge of nearly all the creative decisions in this lumbering shitlog of Jewish agitprop. Admiral Gender Studies was just an inevitable consequence rather than an intentional deception. Women will walk away thinking she's a feminist icon rather than a loathsome twat who needlessly gets her comrades killed because it tickled her twat just the right special sort of way. I'm in charge, fuck you boys. Go die.

A woman would destroy a billion dollar corporation if it made her feel good. And, coincidentally, they have before. Like Yahoo!.

HERE IS A MULTIPLE CHOICE QUESTION, HOWEVER THREE OF THEM ARE SPECIFICALLY WORDED SO IF THEY ARE PICKED, THEN I CAN SAFELY DISREGARD YOUR OPINION, AND THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE CHOICE IS THE ONE I AGREE WITH. CHOOSE WISELY. SO SAYS I, MASTER POLL CREATOR

Wainwright, exact opposite. I don't mind it though, cold never bothered me much and the gun laws are nice.

>has Wars in title
>70% of the actual content is dedicated to human drama and conflict
It's almost like the title was an afterthought or something that just sounded cool. You fanboys sure love to suck Lucas cock, even unconsciously.

>That's exactly how DJ came to know of the plan

Um, no. Actually I marvel how DJ came to know the evacuation plan. At the point of the infiltration, Poe still knew jack and shit about the actual plan and was trying to take control of the ship, so he couldn't let Finn and DJ in turn know about it. Poe only learned about the plan after he woke up from the stun gun. At that point, Finn and DJ were already captured. So how could DJ disclose the plan that the rebel cruiser was being evacuated when none of the named characters could have told him beforehand? All he should have known at that point was "hey, I'm here to break your tracking thingy, so they can jump away".

sounds like a woman youtube.com/watch?v=fIQj3SecNCM

If they really are a rebel organization there's no reason for him to follow bad directions when he could just make his own cell

Poe, the guy who destroyed Death Star 3.0, is trustworthy enough to let him in on the plan. But hey, don't tell him, not like he's a hothead who will run off and do his own thing oh wait he is and Holdo knew this.

>this passive aggressive damage control
Do they not get that being a little bitch about it is not how you change minds?
It failed for Ghostbusters and it will fail now

The possibility of a spy sure hasn't stopped the rebellion from explaining their plans to every soldier and the audience, in detail, in every OT movie.

>ANH
>General Holdo! The Death Star is headed towards Yavin 4 and is charging it's main weapon! What is your plan?
>I have no obligation to tell you, flyboy shitlord
>What? They're going to obliterate us!
>Engage hyperspace, we are going to crash with no survivors

>In fact, that's exactly what he did. That's exactly how DJ came to know of the plan, and that's exactly the info he gave to the First Order.

That happened because she DIDN'T tell him.... these fucking mental gymnastic coping mechanisms are getting out of hand.

I can play that game too, Pablo
What do rebels do?
100% they rebel

Poe is 100% validated.

In your face.

If she had told Poe, Finn and Chinn would have never go to Monaco and find Benicio of the Bull in the first place.

Also, I'm still trying to remember how did Bull heard about the plan.

lol

>episode 4
>all pilots on deck getting briefed on the plan to attack the death star. lots of details and explanations

>episode 8
>uhhhhhhhhhhhh

WHAT ORDERS???!!!!!!!!!!
She gave none!
If she had given an order, sure, but she gave none, her orders where "lol, do nothing, just hope".

Fuck this people and their nonsense damage control, at least come up with better excuses to shitty writing and your artificial conflicts to validate your shitty mary sues.

>Also, I'm still trying to remember how did Bull heard about the plan.

Same. Fuck, I saw the movie yesterday and I don't remember when he learned about the evacuation. I do remember that I was wondering about just that when it was shown that he told the FO about the evacuation crafts and I thought I missed something.

>standing up for some random no story dead in one movie character

lmao

That's exactly what he does

Are people really surprised that the writing is shit in this movie?

The difference between a writer employed solely to push an agenda and a writer with a focus on quality storytelling is that a writer with an agenda will focus only on the agenda while coping all the things around it in the most retarded simple-minded way so long as the agenda is pushed in the limelight;
while a writer with a focus on quality will set up a nice priority map of the main elements of the movie, go read additional literature on those elements and seek advice from experts like for instance biologists for the biology parts or engineers for the engineering parts or military people and literature for military elements, and then implement and polish the story to fit a somewhat coherently detailed and legitimate combination of all of the aforementioned.

Clearly, the Star Wars writers for this movie weren't employed to produce quality writing but to push a simple-minded agenda with the least amount of effort they can put into it.

Since when do small Resistance movements have command chains anyways? They aren't a real military.

>When does an admiral need to explain her orders to a captain
See, this is where the OT had an advantage. The actors in it had largely been a part of national service. They actually knew how a military worked, and could act appropriately with that in mind.

It's clear as daylight that nobody writing this shit even knows how any modern armed force works.
For one thing, admirals DO explain their orders to junior officers, in a fashion.
How command works is
>CO and their senior officers come up with plan
>plan gets passed down to lower levels of command
>officers pass down to their junior officers
>junior officers pass this down to NCOs and possibly grunts
>NCOs brief grunts, if necessary
There's good reason for this.
For one, it means someone can flag up any issues that a commander may have overlooked, due to their different perspective. They may not change much, but a good officer doesn't flat out ignore their juniors, and will explain any issues if they don't comprehend the situation.
This is one way that Admiral Tumblr failed.

A second reason is because officers required to make judgement calls need to know the wider tactical and strategic picture, so they don't fuck it up out of ignorance.
This is another way Admiral Tumblr failed. Poe caused catastrophic damage because he wasn't aware of the wider strategic implications of his actions.

The third, and most important, reason is so an officer in a junior position can potentially take over a senior one if the senior officer gets taken out of action. If the junior doesn't know, they will fuck it up.
Given that the reason Admiral Tumblr is in charge us due to 90% of the command structure getting wiped out, and that there are barely 30 officers left in their briefing, failing to take this precaution is such a catastrophic fuck up that she should have been thrown out the airlock when Leia woke up.

Why does an Admiral not jump into hyperpace BEFORE 2/3 of her command get killed?

a) she's retarded
b) she's actually a bad guy
c) the writers are shit
d) she's not menatlly equipped to be in command

The filmmakers write both sides as wholly incompetent, and yet one side has taken over the galaxy and the other used to run it. That probably just demonstrates the writers lacking any understanding of how societies actually function, and that feels before reals is a legitimate method of governance. Meanwhile in the originals, the Empire was the Empire because of intelligence and ruthlessness. Failure was met with extreme punishment, leading to only the most cunning officers achieving position.

Hux and Darth Emo are children compared to Tarkin and Piett.

He was a lunatic for wanting to know why his commander's plan was apparently to do nothing and wait to be blown up?

He was a technical genius who was able to cloak his ship against the Supremacy so I just assumed he detected the Resistance ships trying to do the same and has that info handy when he needed something to barter with.

That's thr conclusion I drew.

Because people were on board. Specifically Leia who they can't move to another ship or carelessly sacrifice with Holdo

The fuck are you talking about? SHe wa son her own WATCHING them get get fried. At least 5 ships went down while she watched.

because it wasn't supposed to be disliked because it has the right agenda.

So everybody who hates it must have the wrong one.

You mean hyperspace away, or hyperspce into Snokes ship?

They couldn't hyperspace away because there wasn't enough fuel. They would have been tracked and then imediatelly caught. That's like, the whole premise of the B plot

This

>Listen, I know you're upset about Leia, but let me take care of things, I have a plan but that's none of your business, flyboy. Let me handle this, now get out of here.

>Because people were on board
On board of what? they had other ships, they moved leia from the place she landed to the infirmary, she can be moved. Admiral Holdinformation decided to wait to the last minute to do anything without telling shit to no one but Ms Nose and two more.


Fuck, Leia's secretary (Carry's daughter) didn't know shit about the plan, and she was Leia's personal secretary.

This movie is shit and these fuckers are trying to excuse the inexcusable.

>is such a catastrophic fuck up that she should have been thrown out the airlock when Leia woke up.

I can see it now. During their parting dialogue, Leia's thoughts probably went "Should I tell her that we can use a droid to helm the doomed cruiser? Nah, this is a good opportunity to get rid of her incompetent ass. No telling what else she'd fuck up if I take her with me."

He meant hyperspace into Snoke's ship. Don't play dumb.

He overhears Poe relaying the plan over the radio when they're on their way back to the FO fleet.

>Explain orders
If only, she didn't give any orders to begin with, fucking Mouse.