in this case, it ruins the whole "people think it's just one guy all this time for centuries" thing.
i mean they can introduce a girl phantom that's not a caucasian but with criminals knowing it's just a human in a suit rather than something supernatural, they'll just kill her then wait for the next fool to pick up the suit and kill them too.
so other than the phantom, who else?
sure is Sup Forums in here
Sure is faggot in you
They could have a girl Phantom. She'd just have to disguise herself as a man. And a black one could wear white make-up.
iirc the 2040 phantom cartoon revealed the previous' phantom's black friend subs for him from time to time when needed.
they never explained how he did it without people noticing though.
the defenders of the earth cartoon gave that show's phantom a daughter but i don't think they ever resolved the whole succession thing.
In theory Tony, because he's so tied to his tech and is far too paranoid to let anybody touch it. Hell, it's likely that he'll just "nanomachine" himself to be immortal and always produce cutting edge tech (see Five Nightmares). But Bendis came so...
IIRC there is one episode where they assume Phantom dies, and his daughter tries taking up the mantle but really sucks at it. Presumably she was either still upset about her dad 'dying' or just wasn't ready.
I could say more about that, but this show wasn't exactly really about plot/character development, een if it would have been cool to see a female Phantom.
However the credits of the show directly state that the Phantom in the series is...I forget which one, the 36th or so (compared to the original Kit Walker being the 21st, and via basic math that means each Phantom relatively has between 10-20 years of active service in the role) so over a dozen characters behind the scenes took up the mantle effectively.
And I also remember in 'The King Collection' Lothar fills the role of the Phantom while he searches for the succesor, I can't remember, but pretty sure it was also Kit's daughter
hmmm...
i don't think i've seen that episode (i don't think the show had a full run in my country).
how did marvel mangaverse use their female stark? i only know about her giant fortress armor
Bruce Wayne i think is a given one, considering he comes from old money.
I feel like it'd be a hard sell to make Steve Rogers black or a woman (or both) back in World War II and still serve in the same role without completely throwing any pretense of the reality of race and gender issues back in the early 1900s right out the window.
did this comic tackle the whole "criminals learn he's not actually immortal"
wasn't that one of the plot points of that black capt america series back then?
they wanted to perfect the serum by trying out the prototypes on blacks.
Agreed, Steve is one of the very few characters (due to his specific role in history) that you really can't change.
Hell, the most noteworthy middle-eastern comic villain has been portrayed by a Brit, and Irishman, and an Australian.
In the Swedish Phantom canon (which incorporates the US daily strips but not a lot of the other material) there have been several female Phantoms, albeit not as a rule. Heck, even Diana has been the Phantom for a few adventures.
They used her terribly. She didn't really do much and she and Banner died in each others arms or some shit after he finally de-hulked.
>mean they can introduce a girl phantom
It is canon there is at least one girl Phantom, in the long history of the family business. It's just is the way it is, what matters is that they keep it in the family.
Heteronormative af in here. Thanks for shitting up Sup Forums again with this shit.
Throwin a SAGE at you
I think it would kind of ruin things.
Isn't that the whole point of Isaiah Bradley
Phantom was already race swapped in the new comics. A black guy picked up the mantel.
a gender flip of that sounds horrifying for the woman.
i remember a shot of the guy taking a pants down pic to prove to the world there is still a living man.
if only you'd ever read any Phantom comics
he's supposed to be wearing facepaint so that nobody can see his skin at all, they didn't do that for the first movie because Billy Zane needed to get his own face out there, and all the subsequent appearance has followed suit
more to the point the Phantom being "one man" is a ludicrous misinterpretation: he's supposed to be a GHOST who WALKS, ie, undead
but if you wanted to nitpick the place to start would be with the idea that "one man" or ghost could go almost two centuries since the first photographs without two pictures being taken
unless you're saying white guys all look the same, in which case i refer you to Billy Zane's identical twin, Steve Buscemi
>how did marvel mangaverse use their female stark?
she's Tony's sister in that universe, and a former SHIELD agent who took over Stark Industries after Tony apparently died, they explicitly point out that while she is still a genius she's not quite at Tony's level
Bruce isn't actually the Hulk in Mangaverse, he was just used as a conduit to summon him(Hulk is just some big demon thing), later Bruce is used to summon Thor in a similar fashion, and then Bruce and Toni ascend to Asgard together
>Isn't that the whole point of Isaiah Bradley
If you can call that piece of shit mini-series as having a "point" sure.
The point being that it's a different character serving in a different role with a different background. What I'm arguing is that you can't just race swap Steve Rogers (and still call him Steve Rogers) and have him act within the same framework without it coming across as pretty tone deaf.
without counting Kit's sister
>Character who can't be stuntcasted
They've made a little Norse god into a black guy, nothing is off limits.
you're talking about a character who is reportedly a ghost to most people when reportedly real at all. literally anything could change about him and it'd be handwaved as just another of many meaningless inconsistencies of being a fucking urban legend. Really, does it ever bother you that common sense is just this cornerstone of the modern world that completely eludes you?
>common sense
>cornerstone of the modern world
I agree with what you're saying but come on now
Also because two Jewish guys made a blue eyes blonde haired perfect specimen punch Nazis.
>it's Sup Forums to point out how a particular character's gimmick would be ruined by changing the race down the line
You're retarded, aren't you?
That too.
I guess they could gender swap him, but race swapping would be pretty tricky and difficult to justify unless Wakanda in an alt-universe was founded by Boers/Afrikaners, or perhaps Egyptians.
I don't know. Changing the sex would probably raise a few alarms unless the suit included some bindings to hide the boobs. Though that could make for some funny instances.
>Guys, is it just me or did the Phantom have a really nice ass?
There is a ton of white people in Africa.
Yes, but Black Panther could not be white unless Wakanda also had a white royal bloodline.
>I don't know. Changing the sex would probably raise a few alarms unless the suit included some bindings to hide the boobs.
Why would it be a problem to have a female Black Panther? The obvious issue is a male-only monarchy but if that rule is removed, Wakanda already has plenty of female warriors and there is no issues sending women into battle.
Kasper Cole.
Ah my mistake, thought we were still on the phantom.
kek
Okay, I'm confused. I thought this thread was specifically about characters whose race or gender could not be easily SWAPPED, as in THEIR character is changed, but I keep seeing people bringing up new characters with other ethnicities/genders that were later introduced.
>he's supposed to be wearing facepaint so that nobody can see his skin at all
Since when? Plenty of the comics in the papers showed his face, but with the domino mask. Hell, he rarely even wore gloves.
>Ah my mistake, thought we were still on the phantom.
Well as many people mentioned, there was at least one canon female Phantom. There is no issues as long as the person was capable of performing one's duties and honour the family code. The Phantom is a long family secret and whoever is the head of the family makes the rules. And if that person just happened to be a woman so be it.
I just straight up like the idea of Tony just going full singularity and uploading his conciousness into a computer/suit/etc
I know ultimate universe kinda did this but from memory it was a heel point turn around
But isn't the whole deal that everyone thinks it's the same exact person since the first appearance centuries ago? So if the current Phantom was killed, their son could take over and make it appear as if they never died at all (or at least stayed down).
what about the black panther?
>But isn't the whole deal that everyone thinks it's the same exact person since the first appearance centuries ago?
Yes, and? You think the Phantom make public appearances? The Phantom had been played by so many people that there is no consistent description. As the other anons point out, witness accounts had never been reliable. You are not suppose to think the Phantom is a person at all.
I was thinking something long the lines of him perfecting the bleeing ege/extremis tech to the point where his cells don't die. He's still biologically human with enhancements that keep him alive. The very definition of man-made-god. It'd be interesting, to say the least.
As for AI, I think he'd view it as something less. He's all about using tech as a tool to benefit mankind. It's Pym who used to be all about Organics and Synthetics co-existing. You could easily turn it around though.
Pretty sure they're supposed to at least believe it's a man. If they were striving to go something not even quite human, then the outfit would be more monstrous.
If live action anime films have taught me anything, it's that you should never underestimate how easily people will change the race of a character for whatever reason it may be.
They could easily change the phantom outfit so it's a full face mask, then literally any race could play it.
>Pretty sure they're supposed to at least believe it's a man. If they were striving to go something not even quite human, then the outfit would be more monstrous.
I am not sure what the issue is. A few people claiming the Phantom is a woman would not change anything, as long as she still does everything her predecessors does.
I guess if it's a one-off thing from time to time, sure.
>I guess if it's a one-off thing from time to time, sure.
And as I say, it is canon. I distinctly remember a female phantom being noted in one of the flashbacks in a comic page I read. There was no big deal made about it; at the time she was the most senior member of the family who is available so she put her mask on.
>he's supposed to be wearing facepaint so that nobody can see his skin at all
Wait...
Did this fag only read The Last Phantom?
Crazy easy to have a mixed, and eventually all black Phantom. He's in the damned jungle, you KNOW he's banging them tribeswomen.
> implying a female phatom wouldn't get NATIVE'D in 5 issues
I didn't even know there was an instance of him completely covering his face. It's always been that Domino mask or the eye shadow shit.
>> implying a female phatom wouldn't get NATIVE'D in 5 issues
The Phantom is the very definition of "going-native". I mean, he lives in a cave and converse with many tribes in their own language.
Fun fact: The Phantom is super popular in Papua New Guinea
He's a household name in Scandinavia...for some reason
And? Still the correct race
The thread doesn't specify that the character HAS to be white, you gibbering retard.
The issue I have is that they aren't supposed to know that the Phantom is mortal. The legend he's built up through the generations is that he is the Man Who Doesn't Die, The Ghost Who Walks.
The Phantom showing up as a woman randomly would ruin that.
>He must be black because of the back story!
Or it could be Rick Jones impersonating Black Panther for some convoluted reason. He doesn't have to be THE Black Panther to lead the book, just wear the suit and fight.
BP is a weird one, because those who receive the title are also a politician. Yeah, Rick Jones could put on the suit and do shit with the Avengers on those days where T'challa wants to pull a Hannibal Buress, but that'd never fly for the diplomatic side of things.
>The Phantom showing up as a woman randomly would ruin that.
Well apparently it didn't, because it is canon there was at least one. So as I say, I don't understand so many people are trying to claim something that already happened, can't happen.
There was also a midget Phantom in the strips. Just because it DID happen, doesn't mean it was a good idea or in keeping with the established concept
>because those who receive the title are also a politician.
Again he doesn't have to do political shit. Just like the replacement batmen don't have to run Wayne tech. There are a million stupid reasons to use and all you have to do is mention that the other responsibilities are being handled by another character or make it part of the storyline. Build a talking hologram or a convincing rubber mask with voice changer. There is no excuse.
>There was also a midget Phantom in the strips. Just because it DID happen, doesn't mean it was a good idea or in keeping with the established concept
And just because you didn't like it doesn't mean you get to erase it. The entire point of the Phantom is that it is a bad idea that magically worked. It is a bloody miracle that the family kept the tradition up this long. Don't question why a woman became Phantom; question why ANYONE would want to be the Phantom.
Given some more Time tony would be easy enough to race swap. Unlike batman the family wealthy part of him isn't that big a deal. So it'd be easy enough to say a wealthy asian/black/etc family had a son/daughter who went on to be a brilliant engineer and turn their millions into mega billions with the suit.
Race could be anything.
Sex would make every other issue a rape arc.
Could see a swap being interested in a sort of adopted step brother way. Only the brother is good and the other houses are full on full assholes trying to back-stab him at every step.
Think we can all agree Magneto is pretty much glued to being jewish. Change his identity or make him from another genocide and Americans won't have a clue wtf he is.
>And just because you didn't like it doesn't mean you get to erase it
If it's bad enough, yes we can erase it. That's how canon works, if people like it, it stays. If they hate it, it'll be tossed out.
And the idea is more sound than using your billions to beat up nutjobs and throw them into a fucking madhouse that may as well be a hotel given how short they stay inside it.
As far as proto-cape, post-pulp characters go, the Phantom's gimmick is amazingly grounded and doable. I'm not against the idea of a femal Phantom being active at the same time as a main Phantom but the whole point of the generational gimmick is so the bad guys are never aware of the Phantom's mortality and a woman messes that up. The Phantom has several canons anyway so in an ideal continuity there would be no females, midgets or amputees that would ruin the illusion of immortality.
>I'm not against the idea of a femal Phantom being active at the same time as a main Phantom
Who even said that? The whole point is that there is one Phantom who is the head of the family. What made you think a female Phantom has to exist as an inferior version of the real thing? The head of the family is it, what matters is the blood, not the gender.
Like one guy said, a female could work if it were during a time when the phantom's more notable traits were easier to dispute. Of course, you could also go the Sheik route and just have it be that the chick binds her chest and just wings it by never speaking with the thugs so they don't realize the Phantom is a girl.
>Given some more Time tony would be easy enough to race swap.
Not really. Tony being under the suit is the underlaying theme of the IM comics. It's not the suit that's special, it's him. Add his fears of becoming obsolete, and his paranoia about his tech, and he's the prime candidate for trying to find a way to become immortal and keep being the cutting edge creator of tech.
Sup Forums would really love the Phantom. All those africans relying on white guys to do everything for generations.
I was under the assumption this is like a reboot or something.
You're right you lose a lot if ANYONE tries to take on the IM name if Tony was the first. But in a complete reboot ala Fury style? You can still do all of that.
Eh, if it's a reboot you might as well make him a Eurasian businessman whose company is in ruins and suits up as Iron man to work as a mild enforcer in order to gather enough cash and save it.
There are no restrictions in a reboot.
I guess his gender could be swapped and do alright, but his race would just not fly. Jack's supposed to be Japanese and belong to a royal family.
There have been female phantoms in the past, dummy.
I said that. You just quoted it.
If you think a female Phantom is automatically inferior, that's YOUR hang up. I never implied that. I'm saying for the sake of the immortality ruse, it makes more sense for the Phantom to NOT show up as a female when, as far as the baddies know, it's supposed to be the same man all this time.
Fucking get a grip. There's no man-centric maleocracy conspiracy here, just the way the story is set up of The Phantom pretending to be an immortal via a multigenerational trick.
>criminals learn he's not actually immortal
That's assuming they've met him before. The Phantom is a legend, legends tend to be inaccurate. Most people would just go wtf I have a boner for a ghost now!
>Fucking get a grip. There's no man-centric maleocracy conspiracy here
There is if you are actually trying to dismiss an actual female Phantom that existed. I didn't say you have to like it, but it makes sense that at one point the choice was a female Phantom or no Phantom.
There was one female Phantom who was only a stand-in for her brother while he was deathly ill. She gave the title back as soon as he was better
Project harder, Anita. I'm not trying to go back in time and convince everyone that there has never been one. I'll do you the favor of just assuming you're being obtuse and you're not actually dense.
They've gone back and used Julie Walker more than a few times but, yeah.
You know, a game series like the Ass Creed ones would work quite nicely with the Phantom. Hell, they basically have the same concept of a bloodline of people following the same profession (granted, Phantom doesn't have that hokey "genetic memory" nonsense). Even if it were just 3-4 games with a progression through the eras, it'd be pretty fun. The island where the Phantom dwells could be like the hub world, with the levels being different depending on the era and Phantom. It could even be a way the skills and powers are acquired (each generation is taking on the old skills while introducing their own).
nothing is canon, you don't get to pick what's canon and what's not, the artist do, and with thousands of rewrites we stop caring about those interpretations, so fuck that word
No, fuck you. Canon is just fine as a word, and if something doesn't sit well in it, then it can fuck off.
a gender flip version of this would be 1 issue long. all the women die, men figure out how to clone the eggs of the last remaining woman on earth, humanity is back to normal in a generation.
They'd have a hard time doing it to Batman since he's from old money that helped build Gotham century's ago.
Black Manta
Can you imagine Aquaman fighting Asian Womanta?
Only on pre 9/11 America, Genndy could get away with having a full blood Japanese male lead. There was still a liberal anti-authoritarian vibe from the 90s and anime was this cool new thing on America. If it was made today, Jack would be a white guy or at best mixed with a white father.
This motherfucker right here only works in his current state.
>Project harder, Anita. I'm not trying to go back in time and convince everyone that there has never been one. I'll do you the favor of just assuming you're being obtuse and you're not actually dense.
I guess I can never understand alleged "fans:" who claim they know the story better than the creators. If you want to make up stuff in your fanfiction that is your choice, but no reason to turn around and say your different interpretation is what is actually in the comics.
Pretty sure we've seen alternate versions of him all over the world so far.
Not sure if we've had any female versions yet though.
EXACTLY
>Not sure if we've had any female versions yet though.
Pretty sure Japan has.
>>Implying his sister never filled in for him.
I disagree. Part of it is that it's seen as more acceptable to raceswap asian characters as other shit.
>Parents.
Either make them black, have him be adopted, or explan nothing.
After Axis Powers Hetalia, I wouldn't take that bet.
>Nyotai ka!! Sekai no Dokusaisha Retsuden
sage for Sup Forums related. or maybe Sup Forums