>loses to the red guards >Rey decides he's so wretched that he isn't worth killing and ditches him >couldn't even tell that Luke was a force projection
How is he going to be a credible threat in Episode 9 at this rate?
Gavin Jackson
>watching CinemaSins
Camden Scott
Weren't those things around since before the PT? I never got into the EU so I don't know but I'm pretty sure I've heard it thrown around.
Noah Lee
I think kyber crystals date back to the very first EU novel, Splinter of the Mind's Eye.
Jonathan King
star wars concept art book
up to 14 pags my scaner shit
John Rogers
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Carter Thompson
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William Sanchez
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Brayden Peterson
The point is that they want lightsabers to be some magical weapon that appears out of nowhere to only jedi. Even though Luke constructed his lightsaber in RotJ.
Julian Kelly
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Michael Gonzalez
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Isaiah Morgan
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Hudson Baker
Honestly, I think the people mad at The Last Jedi for being “not like Star Wars” are missing the point of the movie.
At its core, the The Last Jedi is a film learning to move on from the past, and accepting that you can’t go back to the way things were. It’s not even particularly subtle about it. It’s not even subtext, the message is literally stated by at least two different characters in the film.
Heck, every plot twist and subversion of Star Wars tropes is done with the intent of sticking to this central message. The mystery of Rey’s parents is solved in the most anticlimactic manner possible. Snoke is killed before the trilogy even ends. Finn’s heroic rescue mission is given major focus, only for it to end in a failure that forces a change in tactics. All of this might seem dissatisfying, but it’s actually there for a reason. These plot points are set up in a way such that they appear similar to plot threads in the original trilogy. A mystery of the main character’s lineage, a powerful wielder of the Dark Side who commands a massive empire, a rescue mission against seemingly impossible odds. And in the end, they’re subverted, and they’re subverted specifically for the purpose of emphasizing that you can’t always cling to the past, that the Galaxy Far Away of today is not the same as it was forty years ago.
And keeping in line with this central theme? The primary villains, the First Order, are intentionally structured in-universe to evoke the Galactic Empire, which had been defeated decades ago. They want to re-create the past as they imagined it to exist, and are willing to commit any number of atrocities to do so. The villains are explicitly built around nostalgia for an idealized Old Days that disregards a history of brutal oppression, and that’s a part of what makes their fascist dogma so frighteningly close to actual fascists today.
Asher Ramirez
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Nicholas Lopez
Even putting aside the political commentary, on an even deeper level it’s a commentary on Star Wars as a cultural institution in itself. Star Wars as an icon of pop culture is one that is built on nostalgia, on the fond memories of the original trilogy that skyrocketed it to worldwide popularity in the first place. But at the same time, that nostalgia has also been hugely limiting, as anything new that comes out of it has to live within the shadow of its own legacy. The Prequel Trilogy has far and away suffered the most for this, as even if they weren’t bad films on their own merits, they couldn’t have been the films people wanted them to be. Both LucasFilm and fans of Star Wars built Episode I up as something that could fully recapture the magic of seeing Star Wars in theaters for the first time. But no matter how good Episode I was or could have been, it couldn’t have recreated that experience, because there is nothing in the world that could.
Rian Johnson recognized the problem, and chose to address it in a unique way: by writing a film that’s fundamentally about learning to accept that things aren’t going to be the same as they were, while simultaneously creating something new in the same spirit. Just as Yoda burned down the last of the ancient Jedi texts so that a new generation can build something better, The Last Jedi itself discards the old series conventions, while simultaneously building a movie that retains the central Star Wars spirit of finding hope against seemingly impossible odds.
The Last Jedi tells us that nostalgia is overrated. That’s why it’s such a brilliant film.
Jason Robinson
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Samuel Lee
It's almost 2018
Why do art books not get digital releases?
Joshua Lee
>OP, people are mad at the racism and white feminist Holdo more than they’re mad at Rey’s parentage. They’re upset that there’s absolutely no continuity from TFA or any written works. They’re mad that there were plot holes and bad characterization and that the entire movie was clearly meant to be a kylo-sympathy film that had more people walk away hating Kylo than from TFA.
>They’re mad that it’s a poorly made movie lmao. Rina Johnson could have had all these ~subversive~ tropes/theories/what have you in mind, but the fact that most people couldn’t even tell what how the theme was meant to be portrayed just points out how poorly made it was.
>Chalking it all up to fans being mad about snoke/Rey theories just blows away all the literal pacing, characterization, writing, and RACISM problems that are in this movie.
>If Rian Johnson couldn’t even keep Leia’s hair color consistent for the duration of the movie, there’s no way he would have been able to do all that you’re saying.
Liam James
You're thinking of Kaiburr crystals, not Kyber crystals. Yes it's stupid that that's a distinction but there you go.
In the EU before that Clone Wars episode lightsaber crystals were nothing special and a jedi on the go could literally make an entire lightsaber from the contents of a storage room or a garage(Luke owns a red lightsaber he made on the fly this way, Jaden Korr's first lightsaber was also made in the same fashion). Most crystals after the OT ended were artificially made in a pressing machine, as were basically all of the sith crystals outside of Dooku's. Jedi still got their crystals from Ilum mostly, but they were never treated as special compared to other crystals.
Kaiburr crystals were different in that while some crystals were vaguely force attuned or special, they were essentially supercharged. A big enough Kaiburr crystal basically turns you invincible since you can regrow lost limbs, fight like a jedi master, and whatever wacky shit you feel like.
It wasn't until TCW that Kyber Crystals are we currently know them exist. But the only difference between those crystals and the ones in Rogue One is that the ones in Rogue One are still inert and CAN'T be used in a lightsaber.
Lincoln Gonzalez
Did he have the best time in galaxy? >fun sapce adventures >fucked up Maul, Grievous and Anakin, propably could kill Sheev >fucked queen from Mandalore >comfy retirement on Tatooine
Colton Phillips
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Justin Miller
I’ve heard the arguments. The only vaguely decent argument I’ve heard is that of its portrayal of PoC characters, but broader complaints of “continuity” that I’ve heard by and large come off as the most nitpicky, Cinema Sins-esque bullshit about details that, ultimately, are unimportant to what the movie is trying to do. The original trilogy, in its inception, was a combination of the archetypical heroes’ journey story, and a story of a rag-tag group of rebels overcoming a fascist threat. It’s a story about being able to find hope against a seemingly unstoppable army. To that end, despite The Last Jedi bucking so many of the series’ trends and having a message of moving on from the past, it’s ultimately much more true to the original vision of Star Wars than the prequel trilogy ever was.
Because the thing that the new trilogy understands that the original Expanded Universe doesn’t is that focusing too heavily on continuity details and world-building only serves to bog down a story with extraneous things that distract from its core themes. The central story in the original trilogy needed barely any details at about the political context of the Galactic Empire and the rebellion to tell a coherent narrative, and much of what the new trilogy does is in the same vein. It’s ultimately not important to know the details of how the First Order managed to grow powerful enough to essentially overthrow New Republic, because that’s not what the story is about. (Granted, those details were actually explored in the novel Bloodline, but at no point is it necessary to have read.) The point is, “continuity” in The Last Jedi is kept almost entirely intact from the last movie, if anything seems like it’s missing, it’s almost always because it’s something the audience simply doesn’t need to know.
Now, as for “characterization,” there are three common criticisms I’ve heard and, for what I feel, all of them miss the mark.
Josiah Hill
Gold Mask Kylo Ren looks cool. I wish they went with that.
Blake Sanchez
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Sebastian Torres
The first complaint is one that I can only imagine making sense if you completely ignore a major part of Luke’s character arc in episodes V and VI. As I’ve talked about before, it is entirely in line with Luke’s portrayal in the original trilogy to have a moment where he would flirt with a darker impulse. We saw the same thing happen when he flew into a blind rage in his duel with Vader in Return of the Jedi, and we saw that darker impulse foreshadowed in the cave in Dagobah when he literally fought an image of himself. To hammer this theme home, the thing in the cave he’s so afraid of on his island turns out to be a mirror. It’s far from subtle, and it’s an entirely logical extension from his consistent portrayal as a flawed hero. Luke’s always been compassionate, to be certain, but he’s also remained self-absorbed and impulsive throughout the original trilogy, which is why it was repeatedly hinted at that he could turn to the Dark Side easily.
The second complaint is more understandable, as there are some people who ship Rey/Kylo who see it that way. (For the record, I’m not particularly a fan of that ship either.) But the thing is, it’s also not supported by the text. Like, at all. That shirtless scene everyone talks about is clearly presented in a way that’s meant to make Kylo look ridiculous, and Rey is quite plainly disgusted by his lack of dress. The supposed “romantic” tensions are really just a matter of Rey’s naivety and self-importance (hey look, actual character flaws – so much for being a Mary Sue) leading her to think that she can be the one to turn him, much like Luke turned his father in the end. The problem is that she’s pretty obviously wrong here, as she didn’t try anything that had already been shown not to work when Han tried to reason with him. Plus, it’s clear by the end of the film that Rey is utterly disgusted by Kylo.
Michael Rogers
The movie sucks, quit trying to push this dumbfuck art student "oh it's actually smart it's le art" shit.
Colton Price
>Sith ghost HOLD THE PHONE I NEED A CLEARER PIC OF THIS ONE
Christopher Russell
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Joshua Cooper
A third complaint I’ve heard, though substantially less common, is that it would have made more sense for Rey and Kylo to be revealed to be siblings, or otherwise related in some way. I’d have to disagree with this for one reason: it would make the Star Wars universe feel way too small. Already both the original trilogy and the prequel trilogy had this problem where they had to establish that basically everyone of any importance was connected to one another, and not only did it really undermine the idea that there’s this entire, vast galaxy with trillions of people out there, it also had a really nasty classist subtext of “noble bloodlines.” Luke being Vader’s son created a lot of interpersonal drama, to be certain, but the idea that only he (or Leia, going by Yoda’s “there is another” comment”) could save the Galaxy made the Force feel less like a divine, quasi-sentient cosmic force and more like a hereditary trait, and the fact that the Jedi were treated in-lore with such reverence made it feel uncomfortably like some kind of noble caste system in practice. Rey having a completely unnoteworthy origin bucks this trend, and paired with the revelation of the Force-sensitive slave child at the end, firmly establishes what was supposed to have been clear from the beginning: that the Force really is everywhere and can manifest itself in anyone.
Carson Bell
I know, but this just goes to show how little these people know about this shit.
But I don't get the mysticism complaint anyway. Midicholrians and knowing more about kyber crystals changes fuck all about the fact that space wizards with laser swords are a cool.
The first instance I remember seeing them in was getting one in Kotor 2. But that's obviously not the first instance they showed up in and just what I played as a kid.
Nathan Adams
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Hudson Morris
>training
What a novel idea.
Bentley Morales
>watching ep III >mfw Sheev shows up Why was he so great?
Matthew Sanders
Now, you’re free to disagree with any of this. I can’t force you to like the film. But I will say that I find it profoundly arrogant of anyone to claim to speak for the film’s entire audience. You can’t claim “most people couldn’t tell what the theme was,” because to put it simply, you don’t know what most people thought of the movie. I’m serious: you don’t. Fandom debates online are largely isolated spaces from a broader audience of millions of people, and IMDB/Metacritic user scores are heavily prone to review bombing by a tiny yet vocal contingent of fans. You can’t make broad claims about what “most people” think of a movie based off of fandom reactions: to do so would be to take your own personal bubble of experiences and interactions and apply it to an audience that’s far larger than you can really understand. You can’t possibly speak for those people, so to claim that your analysis is objectively correct based on your perception of audience reaction is a fool’s errand.
Jace Jackson
>writes long post explaining why he likes the movie >THE MOVIE SUCKS, DUMBFUCK Nice discussion.
John Gray
>Tantive is pronounced tantivy
Easton Diaz
TL;DR
Post limits exist for a reason you dumb blogposter.
Jaxson Perez
>Midicholrians and knowing more about kyber crystals changes fuck all about the fact that space wizards with laser swords are a cool. Exactly.
Ryan Morgan
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Elijah Myers
>when Sheev shows up You mean literally the first scene of the movie?
Joseph Ward
>Why was he so great? the acter was haveing fun with his part
Carson Lopez
i'm going to sacn the rest of it later, be back in a 1h
Charles Cox
Fair enough, thanks for the info.
>acts like a power up Ok sure, why not. Kinda glad that went away then.
Well until that part where he looses a bunch of people in the war. But Obi is pretty based.
Landon Jones
Not an argument.
Jace Young
/swco/ has decided yet again.
Aiden Edwards
Oh hey something that could have been a bit more clever of a design choice. Wearing something akin to his outfit from IV and parts of his Xwing flight suit.
Leo Bell
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Alexander Cook
I’d say that midichlorians ruin how the Force is presented (a mystic energy that flows throughout the universe) by trying to explain it away with science shit
A lightsaber is just a weapon, explaining how it’s made doesn’t ruin it
Julian Bailey
anyone have the reindeer boob censor pic of /ss/?
Jayden Brown
rose won??
Oliver Bailey
Round6 >It's green on green when the spiritual Luminara Unduli faces off against what is she /swco/? meme Rig Nema strawpoll.me/14699046 >For the second rounds it's the galaxies sluttiest Jedi vs the selfless Amilyn Holdo strawpoll.me/14699048 >Next up we have the lovely Leia Organa squaring off against skilled bounty huntress and rebel - Ketsu strawpoll.me/14699052 >Lastly we have ace pilot Hera face of against fit scavenger Rey strawpoll.me/14699055
Justin Wilson
But ultimately the Force is still the same. Now you just know that it's some bacteria that are what allows for communication and manipulation with it.
I don't remember the full story about them though.
Owen Allen
Midi-chlorians aren't the end all be all of the Force though. It's a way Jedi quantify it but it doesn't necessarily mean they are crucial to Force sensitivity or that it explains everything about the Force.
Christian Russell
Coolest bounty hunter
Samuel Ward
yes
Mason Sanders
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Luke Robinson
Hey, that stripe on the pants is a CORELLIAN badge of honor. Their culture is not a fucking costume, Rey. Cultural appropriation is not a fucking joke, Rey.
John Gomez
>mfw i liked Kylo Ren since TFA and got to watch him become the best part of the trilogy
Jason Anderson
Nice
Christian Taylor
Midichlorians fucks it up for me because it makes it so instead of strength in the force being derived from knowledge, wisdom, training, and enlightenment it all comes from a genetic lottery like it's the X-men or something. Kyber crystals are just a thing to make lightsabers with though, and lightsabers themselves are just a fancy weapon. Really there is no mystery to a lightsaber its just a weapon that only a few super powered people are able to use and the only reason other people don't use it is the same reason most armies don't send out troops with broadsword these days.
Brody Butler
That’s a strange way of drawing boba fett.
Elijah Watson
When will we get official confirmation as to what the 2020 anthology movie is?
Daniel Lopez
I wouldn't mind if Ben's likely redemption outright subverts expectations for how it will happen. Rey wrongly thought that she could take up Luke's former role in this regard, Han failed, and whatever role Leia may have played is out the window with Carrie no longer with us. Maybe, just as Kylo chose to do evil out of his own free will, Snoke or no Snoke, despite being in conflict with his own better tendencies, he will have to choose good on his own as well. It'd basically be less about a savior rushing in to save the day and more about an afflicted individual having to find the strength to attain personal balance.
Of course, this theory is predicated on the idea that the new trilogy might want to play with the standards set by the older films, namely the idea that the heroes do everything, when TLJ seemed to emphasize that the big names matter less in the grand scheme of things (outside of possibly setting a positive example) than the various smaller figures that make up the majority of the galaxy. In short, taking the hero's journey to its logical conclusion, by showing how the boon recovered or discovered by the hero impacts the world they return to.
John Flores
Revan KOTOR trilogy when?
Daniel Brown
>it all comes from a genetic lottery like it's the X-men or something. Wouldn't that make more sense, especially if people are measured by how force sensitive they are? That would explain why not everyone is a jedi and that Luke became a jedi very easily.
Henry Evans
At the end of RotJ Luke has overcome the darkness, that's The Whole Point of his character arc and symbolically tossing aside his lighstaber. Star Wars is a fable not a character study. He was walked backwards in this film. End of fucking story.
Josiah Morgan
I think we know it's Kenobi, they haven't had anything else in the rumor mill unless they're going to sneak Boba Fett on us.
Lincoln Torres
Taking the PT and the ST together, we learn that Luke Skywalker was a loser, his father was a loser, his mother was a loser, his best friend was a loser, his nephew IS a loser, and he's the last in a 1000-generation succession of Jedi Knights, all of whom were total fucking losers. He lives in a universe where peace and democracy lose constantly, so what's the point of caring about it as a setting or any of the characters in it?
Alexander Smith
around the knowledge, a perimeter create
Aiden Watson
Yoda knew Rey stole the books.
Aaron Cruz
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Nolan Scott
One thing I wonder about - midichlorians are drawn to the Force, so the more Force sensitivity someone has, the more midichlorians can be found in their blood. But is it possible to become MORE sensitive to the Force over time through training and understanding, thus increasing your midichlorian count?
Ayden Long
I always interpreted the focus on midichlorians in episode I to be a sign that the Jedi Order of the Late Republic era had become overly rigid and formalised in their application of jedi philosophy, focusing on an easily quantifiable metric instead of a person's potential to learn and apply the jedi teachings shows that they had become complacent in their recruitment approach.
Josiah King
And yet, Qui-Gon is supposed to be a radical and unconventional Jedi, but he's the one who brings up midichlorians first.
Isaiah Clark
This is just me but I actually dislike the idea not anyone can use the force. Maybe some people are better at it but seeing as how it's suppose to be a religion it seems theoretically possible through training or study should be able to become a Jedi or at least have some connection to the force beyond just saying "May the Force Be With You". I took it that not everyone becomes a Jedi for the same reasons not everyone becomes a nun or monk. But then Jedi was originally never meant to be an actual full religion so much as it was a kind of space superhero so that's my fault for trying to read so much into something that was never meant to be that deep.
William Bell
Also, Luke used the Force for defense instead of attack in his final confrontation.
Jeremiah Roberts
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Samuel Nguyen
I don't know why so many people want a Kenobi movie so much. What could possibly be worth telling on Tatooine in between III and IV? The only interesting plot line that could bring was already wrapped up in Rebels with the final Kenobi vs. Maul duel.
Ian Lee
I think Kylo rejecting the dark side through his own growth would be more interesting too.
In ROTJ Luke showed Vader that it was possible ("You don't know the power of the dark side - I must obey my master" then he sees Luke throw away his lightsaber after coming so close and declare that he will never turn) and then with Luke's life in danger, Vader sacrificed himself to set things right.
In IX it would be nice to see Kylo discover that it is possible through his own observation - maybe his disagreements with Hux and the First Order questioning his leadership or something makes him see that their intentions are far more dark than he is really capable of, so he takes his "burn it all down" thing a step further and destroys the First Order too. Then kind of hits the reset button on himself and walks away from everything to become like a monk or some shit. Not truly "redeemed" but turned away from the dark.
Easton Cooper
>tfw no rodian gf
Gabriel Martinez
Well, it just shows that even he bought partly into their mentality, no matter how hard he tried to be different.
Wyatt Williams
I'd say he brought it up because he knew that it was something that the council would take seriously when considering whether to let Anakin into the order because they think an eight year old is to old to join, something else that betrays the order's complacency and arrogance: "We can take any infant with a high midichlorian count and turn them into an honourable, enlightened jedi knight, but an eight year old is far too sullied by the world outside to be worth teaching."
Aiden Anderson
If Rian Johnson's trilogy doesn't have an abundance of important alien characters I'm abandoning ship. I'm sick of human-centric Star Wars movies.
Levi Cox
How the fuck big did they want Kylo to be? How did Leia even get that out of her?
Jason Green
Would this work for you if it were true? Like, if an ordinary person could become more sensitive over time and raise their midi count?
Lucas Sullivan
What exactly was the Jedi prophecy? I'm talking like the specific text of the prophecy. All we know is that it foretold someone would bring balance to the Force, but what did it say exactly? Was that ever described, canon or otherwise?
Parker James
>explains how the film smacks you over the head with the message >dude stop trying to make it deep What?
Joseph Hughes
People fear what they don't understand.
Anthony Rivera
>That shirtless scene everyone talks about is clearly presented in a way that's meant to make Kylo look ridiculous, and Rey is quite plainly disgusted by his lack of dress Actually literally false, dude. How the fuck did you misread a trope that's used in romcoms all the time? She wasn't disgusted, she was embarrassed. Rian Johnson himself said the scene was supposed to create intimacy and that they added it specifically because he thought Adam looked so good from all of his training.
Add that to the fact that Mark Hamill himself said that the tension between Rey and Kylo is romantic tension and you're flat out incorrect. Did you even see the elevator scene and that hand touching scene? You really saw those as platonic? That's some next level dense.
Ian Nguyen
the SUCC
Joshua Parker
>the Wook currently doing their annual Mister and Miss Star Wars votes >Holdo currently in the lead for Miss, Ackbar in the lead for Mister
Kayden Ward
It's glass transparent, it's just shit.
Connor Thomas
This seems like Empire Strikes back knock off shit
Anthony Wright
What is with all the obsession with subverting expectations? The heart of Star Wars is redemption, hope, and good triumphing over evil. Redeeming Kylo is just keeping in line with what Star Wars is meant to be. Anyone who thinks that core theme needs subverting is missing the point. Considering Kathleen Kennedy keeps saying Star Wars is still about hope and optimism, I don't think they'll miss the point that hard.
