What do you call the era between the Outback Era and X-Men #1?

What do you call the era between the Outback Era and X-Men #1?

Muir Island saga.

The best era

Early golden age

X-men ruined the comic industry.

The Muir Island Saga is the story at the end of this era, so it doesn’t really work to call the whole thing that even if it is fitting.
Agreed
Not really it had been good for years at that point. The 90’s might be their most popular era and when they were most relevant but most of the best stories had already happened.
If you mean because of the bubble you can’t blame them alone, even if they were the biggest contributor.

90s were the best of times and I want to fight anyone who does X-Men recs skipping from Claremont to Morrison

Well if you need a proper name, then Endgame era would probably be fitting, since it's essentially the end of an era. New Mutants, X-factor, and Uncanny get huge overhauls, and Claremont, and Simonson who were the main architects of the series both left the books shortly afterwards. Also fitting since Claremont wanted Shadow King to be the ultimate evil of the X-men, and the one fueling the entire anti-mutant sentiment.

That's my favorite era, really underrated.

Why DID the outback team thought it was a good idea to play dead?

Jim Lee era.

I totally forgot Psylocke was Britain's sister

The period between the Outback era and X-Men #1 has no official "name" for that entire stretch of issues.

"Dissolution and Rebirth" is the official name given to #248-255 in marketing for that stretch of issues, as those issues were published biweekly in 1989. Those issues cover the "official" end of the Outback era (though that itself started two issues prior with #244-247 with the removal of Rogue, return of Donald Pierce, and introduction of Jubilee).

Meanwhile there is the fact that #268 is the official start of the Jim Lee run, which overlaps with X-Men #1 as far as periods go.

Easiest way would be to divide that period into segments:

#244-267 is Dissolution and Rebirth

#268-277 is the Jim Lee Era Version 1

#278-280 Muir Island Saga.

The Siege Perilous era? That's when they all lost memories of who they were and were living normal lives. Meanwhile Wolverine met Jubilee and Storm met Gambit and were doing they're own things separate from the X-Men.

Official story reason for the X-Men faking their deaths was the Marauders.

The Marauders shot Maddie/left her for dead and stole her son and then tried to kill her again when they found out that she was alive. The Marauders tried to turn Dazzler into the permanent host for their leader Malice and when the X-Men drove Malice out of her body, Malice targeted Polaris and possessed her/would have killed Havok had he not gone to the X-Men to tell them about the Brood ship he and Lorna had found crashed in the New Mexico desert. There was also the matter of the murder of Sarah Grey; Storm and Wolverine believed the murder was committed by the Marauders (in truth, Cameron Hodge and the Right had her murdered). Not to mention the Morlock Massacre and Sabretooth storming the X-Mansion and destroying Cerebro.

The Marauders were a huge threat and targeting the X-Men left and right, including their families/allies. Storm's logic was that the X-Men had to fake their deaths/go underground in order to make the Marauders think their enemy was dead, so they could find out where the hell the Marauders were operating from and free Polaris/Nathan Summers and stop them and their boss Mr Sinister once and for all. Of course, they only got to carry out the plan by pure chance of having to outright die on live TV, along with having Roma bring them back and put an enchantment on them to help with the charade.

Behind the scenes? Claremont was pissed off that his Jasper's Warp storyline got shut down due to Alan Moore being a bitch boy, along with being pissed off that X-Factor/New Mutants existing and the behind the scenes drama with Roger Stern and over Magneto in X-Men vs Avengers. As the X-Men franchise grew (and Claremont by that point only writing one of the three books), he wanted the X-Men fully disconnected from the rest of the Marvel Universe. Which didn't work out as the book became even more popular and Marvel ordering a Wolverine solo book as a result.

The world already thought they all died, it was broadcast all over the news worldwide and become a big public thing that the X-Men were dead. So they just decided to roll with it and lay low for a while so they're friends and families wouldn't get a target on their backs.

It's pretty stupid though that they wouldn't even tell the other X-Men teams that they were still alive.

X-Factor/X-Men were fully isolated from each other and not on speaking terms (X-Factor, or Jean at least, refused to have anything to do with the X-Men because Magneto was hanging around them)

As for the New Mutants, they probably felt it was for the best since they didn't want to risk the inevitable Marauders attack on the team. Magneto had already run a simulation between the New Mutants and Marauders and the Marauders pretty much slaughtered the New Mutants. So they assumed that if the New Mutants didn't know the X-Men were alive, there was little chance the Marauders would find out and harm the New Mutants to force the X-Men to resurface.

>being pissed off that X-Factor/New Mutants

Was Claremont really upset over New Mutants existing? It seemed like he was willing to accept it, so long as he could write and seamlessly work it into his X-men run. Was it over the direction it took after he left?

Shooter not only ordered Claremont to develop New Mutants against his will but also threatened to bring in another writer to both develop it and write it, if Claremont didn't.

That other writer most likely would have been Byrne, since Shadowcat was supposed to be part of a group of "junior X-Men" characters Byrne pitched around the time Shadowcat/Dazzler debuted. Claremont shot down Byrne's pitch for a "junior X-Men" squad because he thought Byrne was pitching his own personal X-Men team to be in the same book as Claremont's, with an eye towards ultimately squeezing Claremont's X-Men out of the book eventually.

Claremont routinely shitted on New Mutants, even dedicating an entire issue of UXM to shitting on the team via having Kitty Pryde (the same age as the New Mutants) proclaim her "superiority" compared to the New Mutants (who she called "X-Babies"; an insult/meme Claremont created for haters to use against the book).

Claremont ALWAYS resented the New Mutants team/book and only quit the book, because Louis Simonson (his former editor) took over it for him and knew she wouldn't try anything to fuck with Claremont and his plans for the book (which never really touched/involved the New Mutants).

Storm's "Plan Omega" is actually first mentioned in #219. In #227, right before they die, Storm even jokes about the irony that the team were planning to fake their deaths only to have them having to die for real.

Not sure if I really buy this. The "X-babies" term seemed more like a way to give the team a different feel from the X-men, and was more a way for Kitty to be proven wrong, because she clearly accepts and respects the New Mutants later in the run, while Claremont was still writting. Maybe he resented them a bit at first, but to me, it was clear he grew to genuinely enjoyed to write the book and its characters, even if he put them through alot of hell.

I always thought she was making fun of the New Mutants because she wanted to feel more grown-up herself since she was always the youngest on the team and everyone viewed her as the baby.

>X-men ruined the comic industry.

Meh... people were buying, they were selling. Sure, there's millions of copies of X-Men #1 sitting around in plastic bags that will never be worth shit, but that's not the point. If you have a product people want, you sell it to them... that's the nature of capitalism. The problem the comics industry has is that they can't react to changes in the market fast enough. Bubbles bursting are a problem for every industry, but it did hit comics worse than most.

Sure, the X-Men were really popular... that doesn't mean that it was bad anymore than Elvis or the Beatles were bad (conversely, popularity doesn't mean something is good - Justin Beaver is allowed to make records and I'm told they sell). It's just the nature of the game... same reason why there's a shit ton of Batman related titles at DC and a shit ton of X-Men titles at Marvel.

The Marvel cancellations you've been seeing? They're Marvel finally reacting to market forces. I suspect that someone at Disney looked at their cashflow, said "why are the comics doing so shitty while the movies are doing so well?" and finally took a look at the actual comics. The deadwood and SJ stuff is on the chopping block. I suspect over the next year you'll see the main Marvel books getting much more in line with the movies.

The only New Mutants Kitty gave a crap about were Doug and Illyanna and even then, when the New Mutants died, she only cared about Magik dying because she got stuck with her cursed sword/armor cancer of evil syndrome.

Fuck, in Excalibur, when Kitty reunited with the New Mutants post-Inferno, she was still a royal cunt to them and pretty much accused them of burning down the school (which Mr Sinister destroyed) and trying to ban them from setting foot on remains of the property, while Excalibur was staying there.

>Cameron Hodge and the Right
>not Cameron Hodge and the Hodge Podge

Where in the hell are you getting any of this from? New Mutants came about because Claremont and Weezie knew the possibility was high of a second X-Men book due to popularity and wanted to get everything in order and set so they could propose it themselves (with the artist they wanted) so they could get first dibs. Gruenwald went to Shooter with a proposal for what amounted to a West Coast X-Men with Iceman, Angel, Beast, Havok and Polaris. Shooter went to Weezie and Claremont and asked if they were cool with it. Bob McCleod was available so instead they countered with what became New Mutants. Fun fact too regarding that: Wolfsbane was supposed to be a fundamentalist Muslim girl but because they already had a dark haired girl with Dani she was changed to a fundamentalist Catholic with red hair from Scotland.

Also when Claremont left the book it was only supposed to be for a short time while he did Excalibur: The Sword is Drawn. He planned to come back and had other plans for the book, notably combining the New Mutants and Hellions into one large team, but Excalibur became popular and he wound up having to stay on which led to Weezie (who was supposed to be a fill-in) becoming full time writer.

But no, Claremont didn't hate the idea for the New Mutants and it wasn't forced on him at all. You're pulling things out of your ass.

X-Men threads are always so comfy

catering to the speculator market ruined the comic industry

This sounds more plausible. I can't see Claremont hating New Mutants, maybe the direction it took later but he seemed to put a lot of heart into the characters he created for it to do it against his will.

New Mutants being demanded by Shooter has been common knowledge for ages.

Shooter wanted more X-Books (Claremont was utterly AGAINST THEM doing spin-offs) and Shooter (who was known to suddenly become fixated on shit at random) suddenly became fixated on the school aspect of the X-Men and how Claremont was wholesale ignoring it.

Hence Shooter merging his desire for a new X-Book and the school becoming central to the X-Men. And him taking a super firm hand with Claremont by telling him bluntly, he either produce it or Shooter would find someone else to do it for him and Claremont would have no say on the book.

Also, Claremont didn't come back to the New Mutants because he didn't really think shit through for the book after the Jasper's Warp/Days of Future Past version of Fall of the Mutants got vetoed. He had already checked out of the book mentally by the time #50 came out and his vacation from the book was just to get away from it and once he saw Louis Simonson was keeping sales afloat, used that as his excuse to not come back.

Claremont desperately only wanted a single X-Book and never forgave Shooter for forcing X-Factor/New Mutants into existence. He only consented to Classic X-Men because it let him retcon/rewrite his old stories and stick it to Byrne over his version of the return of Jean Grey/Phoenix Force.

He also is the same guy who spent the first 13-14 issues of Wolverine's ongoing literally attempting a Wacky Deli scam to get it canceled, via writing Terry and the Pirates fanfic with Wolverine (out of costume and under an alias) as the main character.

>a Wacky Deli scam
What?

i remember the rumor being a west coast x-men until Claremont came up with New Mutants. and that claremont scrapped the Jim Jaspers stuff out of respect for Moore.

It's from an episode of Rocko's Modern Life. Rocko befriends the show runner of a famous cartoon that just finished a long running, popular cartoon that the creator hates with a passion.

The show runner is ready to do other stuff/retire from animation, but his studio tells him he's still on the hook for another show with them.

So he convinces Rocko and his friends to make the show (Wacky Deli) for him so he can get it canceled.

Rockos modern life reference

The Jasper version of FotM was not canceled out of respect for Moore, but vetoed explicitly by Shooter/Marvel's lawyers because Moore was threatening lawsuits over Marvel reprinting his Marvel UK work and they didn't want to deal with a lawsuit over Claremont using concepts/characters like Fury that Moore claimed full ownership of.

Not being able to do the original version of Fall of the Mutants (plus X-Factor) really pissed off Claremont and his long term plans for the X-Men. He never quite recovered in that Claremont had detailed plans for what he was going to be doing and everything after #200 as a result, was Claremont making shit up as he went along and dealing with editorial telling him no and him having to change his plans to adapt to it.

Also "West Coast X-Men" was something Claremont threw around as an insult towards his overall feelings of Marvel doing ANY spin-offs. IE he hated West Coast Avengers and didn't want it happening to the X-Men too.

>The Jasper version of FotM was not canceled out of respect for Moore, but vetoed explicitly by Shooter/Marvel's lawyers because Moore was threatening lawsuits over Marvel reprinting his Marvel UK work and they didn't want to deal with a lawsuit over Claremont using concepts/characters like Fury that Moore claimed full ownership of.
sometimes I wonder if things would have been better if Alan Moore had died after Watchmen had finished

Whatever happened to the whole "They can't be filmed" Thing. Or Chroma (Kroma) in general

Never given a full explanation.

Fanon explanation is that Roma revoked the gift at the start of the Muir Island Saga without telling the X-Men. Either because the team was outed as being alive by that point or beecause of the events of Excalibur #42-50, where Merlin came back and started gathering energy to claim the Phoenix Force

Since it's been mentioned; what exactly was the original plan for Fall of the Mutants and how does Jasper's Warp fall have to do with it?

The basic outline for the original Fall of the Mutants storyline:

>>After Magneto's trial, Jaspers would end up being relocated to the US.
>>The Fury would arrive to Earth to kill him but find Nimrod instead. Nimrod kills the Fury, merges with the remains and gains Doom level super-intelligence.
>>Nimrod carries out the mutant massacre himself (in a story that runs only in the pages of X-Men); only Kitty gets hurt fighting him as far as becoming permanently phased.
>>Jaspers and Nimrod meet, form an alliance but both plotting to betray the other.
>>Jasper's reality warping power manifests, decides to slowly warp reality to recreate the Days of Future Past timeline version in the present
>>Kitty is treated by Captain Britain; along with Longshot and Cap Britain would become part of a harem with Colossus pursuing Kitty romantically
>>Polaris is killed by the Marauders, who are killing mutants for Mr Sinister. Hellfire Club also hit by Sinister, forcing an alliance between them and the X-Men. Havok rejoins the team and the Hellions are transferred to the X-Mansion for their safety.
>>Forge finds out via magick a way to reverse/counter the impending reality warp, as Storm arrives post-death of Polaris to get her powers back. Both get exiled outside the universe by Jaspers.
>>Rachel escapes Mojo just in time to realize that Jasper's slowly warping reality to recreate the future and warn the X-Men
>>Manhattan gets warped into DOFP Manhattan, with the warp growing and slowly consuming the planet.
>>FOTM then starts, with the X-Men proper being affected by the warp physically and mentally ala Inferno. They also finally meet X-Factor.
>>Kitty and her harem are given the Seige Perilous by Roma and join the X-Men in fighting Jaspers/Nimrod
>>Nimrod is sent through the Siege Perilous; no clue what happens to Jaspers
>>Reality warp is reversed but the X-Teams are the only ones to remember what happened

That's a lot better than what we got.

I found X-Factor's FOTM story to be stronger than Uncanny's.

>alan moore

so wikipedia says he had nothing to do with marvel comics. he was part of a story in the 1980s and left abruptly. this thread is about the 90s. tell me what i'm missing. it was finished, right?

it seems similar to scarlet witch and decimation.

*nothing to do with marvel comics in the 90s*

scuse me

certainly

>alan moore claimed ownership of fury

nick fury? citation

In Claremonts ideal universe Scott is in Alaska with Maddie, Inferno never happened, Jean is dead, and Rachel is Phoenix. He had the "Tessa is a spy for Xavier" plan since at least '91 when he was plotting out the buildup to #300. Oh I'm not saying it's bad and reading what Claremont originally wanted it makes sense. Shadow King is behind Mystique being a terrorist having driven her insane. Shadow King is fueling anti-mutant hysteria and trying to drive the world towards the DoFP timeline and you get to Uncanny #300 and the X-Men and their enemies unite to drive him off in what would've been a more proper way to (probably) end Claremont's run.