>be me
>animation student
>going for 3D
>goes to a college with a dominant 2D crowd
>ginger bitch tells me she wants to work for Pixar or Dreamworks
>studies 2D animation and hates 3D
>visdev positions are given to illustration majors
How fucked is she, lads?
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This is the actual reason I stopped studying animation. 2D is dead.
Why do you care? You obviously believe you made the right choice, how does her choice impact you?
> animation student
you're all fucked
Well for one thing he now has less competition for jobs.
She might ould get a job in the TV division.
That said, as a fan I loved 2D, but studying it now, 3D is so much more convenient. Its easy to see why its takee over.
The problem isn't that she's studying 2D, it's her unwillingness to ever think about 3D that will give her more problems.
So... she does something that benefits him, and he goes on to mock her for it.
Real classy
This.
She can work in concept and story boarding.
This.
t. an animation student
I look forward to complaining with you about how we cant make it in the industry, OP
tpbp
>ginger 2D artist
can i get her number? or her blog?
I, for one, welcome a new wave of assholes entering this business. Maybe it'll thin the crowd of the ungodly amount of nu-artists.
Anything to bring some grit and quality back.
This. The jobs are vanishing. In animation you're going to be competing for storyboarding positions, and that's about it. Illustrators get background and character design jobs and often times dip into storyboarding because they're just always better artists than animators and can do way more than them, and gooks do animation.
You go to SCAD, don't you?
I just graduated from SCAD in Animation, and all my freshman friends at the time we're pretty much everything you just posted in your op.
But yeah you're pretty much fucked.
>How fucked is she, lads?
Well, that's for you to tell us, user, you dog!
How exactly do you go work for pixar while knowing nothing of 3D? Does she plan on sucking a lot of dick and being the coffee bitch or something? Nobody is going to pay to sit you at a $15,000 workstation if you don't know what the fuck you're doing.
You know, not every animation school is SCAD
But I wouldn't be surprised since I saw the same things
nobody asked you, mongoloid
If the movie was animated like that it would have been beautiful.
>tfw i fell for the "artist" meme
fucking quit right the fuck now or get stuck jobless or drawing gay fury OCs. I have a 4 year art degree and my 3 month IT certificates have gotten me more jobs than any animation degree ever has. They also pay more, im currently making 40 an hour just fixing shit for old people.
Bait and lies, you don't work or study animation.
Otherwise youbwould know that there are a lot of work that a 2d artist can do, like concept art and storyboard, and these pay BETTER than as an animator.,to not mention that gives you more control over the movie than just being the guy that moves what other people decided.
>like concept art and storyboard,
Aiming to become a concept artist fresh from college is ridiculous. Literally anyone in a medium sized animation studio can draw competently (sometime even the IT dept guys) so the ones in concept art are pretty much god tier speed-drawer level.
Storyboard is a much more realistic aim, but art skill alone won't be enough. Applicants need to have good cinematography backgrounds, like actual life action filming experience.
And yes these positions pays A LOT BETTER. They're also on the pre-production team, so if they plays their card right they could be helming some smaller scale projects in 4 or 5 years.
My 2 cents.
>You live in a world where you have a higher chance making money on youtube even if your channel is 100% political and half your videos are demoonitized than if you become a professional animator
lel
I thought you can simply study visdev in the US?
fuck all of you I live in a country with no animation industry at all
Hang on a second!
So if I want to make a cartoon, my best chances is to study to be a concept artist or storyboard artist?
She is clearly misguided but it's not really any of your business. I get that this thread is for jobless people to feel better about themselves bc someone else made a poor career choice so... continue.
>So if I want to make a cartoon
Well there're 3 components in an animation studio; pre-production, production and post-production. You will need to find any position within the pre-production team to stand a chance of getting a directorial position.
But if you really wanted to create your own cartoon, like full ownership, you'll need to pitch it. Build your idea bible (10 pages or so) and bring it to one of the pitching events. Mipcom at France is better for children cartoon. It doesn't matter if you look like an unwashed backwater bum, the event always desperately looking for the next big idea.
>Applicants need to have good cinematography backgrounds, like actual life action filming experience.
Why? There's virtually no cinematography (or nothing that can seriously be called such) involved in cartoon animation, which is what most American TV animation is.
>Mipcom
Nice
Tell me, how would I know if I could present my idea while in the pre- production area?
10 years ago, yes you can get by without a cinematography background. Nowadays professional film based storyboard artist are migrating into animation and studios are noticing the advantages of storyboard artist with filmography background. The requirements are constantly shifting, its one of those thing college lecturers rarely mentioned.
Film based animation, sure, but most TV studios hire people more leniently. I’ve seen people get hired on shows with only comic drawing experience.
Companies can come up with whatever requirements they like, but what is really the point when cinematography is irrelevant 9 times out of 10?
Not immediately. In the beginning just do your job flawlessly or kiss the right asses.
Do studios under different companies matter for the kind of cartoon?
I'm just speaking about the current trend.
But here's the hard truth about getting a job in an animation studio; 70% of the time its about who you know regardless of your skill. I think this is fairly obvious.
I think it was Disney fault, they started this trend. They started using storyboard artist with cinematography background around the time Tangled was in production.
Come to think of it, the low wages for animation studio was originally started by Disney as well...
Disney's filmmaking is far more advanced than the likes of Steven Universe, so it makes sense to hire people with a background in cinematography.
Absolutely. You need to study each companies requirements at Mipcom. Like if you got crazy ideas, you should book Nickelodeon pitch slot and avoid Disney slot.
I completely agree. The problem is that the suits at Human Resource (the ones that filters the applicants) rarely knows this and just follows the trend.
Or you can become youtube animator and make money out of blogging about your daily life.
That's also an option, now.
>or get stuck jobless or drawing gay fury OCs.
Believe it or not, but if you are good enough, you can make tons of cash drawing furry commissions for other people on deviantart or furrafinitty.
Of course, once you go pon, you can never really go back to doing legit professional work without it getting back at your face.
>youtube animator
you mean shitty animator, jaden puts other people's animations into her work because she doesn't give a shit anymore
it's the same shit as story time youtubers but it's barely animated, I'm getting sick of this "relatable" garabe
So if my cartoon had more adult content (cursing, sexual tones, etc.) it would fit more to Adult Swim and Fox?
>it's the same shit as story time youtubers but it's barely animated, I'm getting sick of this "relatable" garabe
I like the animated format of that because, precisely because of the format, each minute take up a lot more work to do, meaning the have to be more concise and to the point. It defacto push the "story time" to be better than the usual live vlogging.
>aden puts other people's animations into her work
uh?
>jaden puts other people's animations into her work because she doesn't give a shit anymore
I think this is classic process when it comes to animation. IT's usually done by more than just one person, or it would take forever.
It doesn't really mean "not caring", especially when it's something professionals do all of the time.
>So if my cartoon had more adult content
Then you should go for MipTV. Unfortunately there are less cartoon publishers for this event, so you'll have less option to sell your idea.
I'd advise against adult cartoon stuff, it's a hard sell. But it should be okay if you prepared a modified kid-friendly version of your idea when you're facing a tough crowd.
its almost like you could be in reddit right now if you have a problem with people here
>mfw I got hired at a studio and never went to college
>all my coworkers say that college is a scam and the ones that did go there intensely regret it for the debts they'll never be able to pay off
>there intensely regret it for the debts they'll never be able to pay off
Not an American, there. I am a student (in engineering) and I have to pay 900€ (book included) every year. I still live with my parents, but may I have to pay a rent for a student place to live in bruxelles (we call it a kot), it's around 300€ per months.
4500€ a year is not nothing, but it's something my parents can pay as well as myself from the student jobs I do during summers and the money my grandparents put aside for me. It certainly doesn't resolves in creeping debts.
Why do Americans keep having awful debts for studying?
Education in the US is an industry, the colleges will charge you as much as they legally could.
With the average salary of an animator(which is one of the worst paid in any professional profession), it usually takes more than 10 years to paid off the dept completely.
People are better off just learning on their own and create a kickass showreel themselves.
how did you get the job? awesome portfolio or contacts?
...when Hulk gets back?
I went to college and could barely draw for shit and came out being able to draw pretty decently and now I'm at a level I'm actually satisfied with. I'm saddled with huge debt, but I can slowly afford to pay it off and I'm happy I went. I don't think I'd be at the level I am now if I skipped out on college.
>Why do Americans keep having awful debts for studying?
There is no one solid answer. I think that essentially one of the most straight forward answers (if that's even possible) that is rarely discussed (and not necessarily related to the industry-side of college costs) is that 90% of the students are paying to subsidize the tuition of 10%. That 10% represents both diversity admissions not covered by federal reimbursement as well as the highest performing echelon of students that get full rides.
For example, I went to one of those much derided private art schools in the States. Tuition was $30k/year when I attended (I think they're closer to $35-38k now), meaning that you'd end up with a $120k sheet of paper for your troubles. The average scholarship was a meager $5K. But for a high performer like myself, I was enrolled and paid basically community college costs which would be analogous to what you paid.
What this boils down to is very simple: The people that whine about debts didn't have the talent to be where they were in the first place, and the debt-free ones that earned the same sheet of paper at barely any cost due to scholarship (note the distinction from those that have family wealth that pay for everything) are (mostly) proof of that. It's like a scarlet letter of sorts, that shows objectively that you were never at a level of performance stratification that justified you advancing through higher education. Big piles of debt are the warning sign that you should stop and not push ahead, but that common sense line of thought is completely ignored by the average American because as individuals we hate thinking of ourselves as "lesser" in talent or ability, even if demonstrably it can be proven and spotlighted. It's hard to feel pity or sympathy for people like that, even if they had latchkey or neglected upbringings. Taking on so much debt is such a no-brainer warning sign that it borders on Darwin Award levels of stupidity to ignore it.
>Big piles of debt are the warning sign that you should stop and not push ahead, but that common sense line of thought is completely ignored by the average American because as individuals we hate thinking of ourselves as "lesser" in talent or ability, even if demonstrably it can be proven and spotlighted. It's hard to feel pity or sympathy for people like that, even if they had latchkey or neglected upbringings. Taking on so much debt is such a no-brainer warning sign that it borders on Darwin Award levels of stupidity to ignore it.
On the other hand, you have a whole society promoting and cashing in to keep the system that way, because they know they would lose a lot if they didn't keep drilling in people mind that what they need is the "best school ever" and that they are loser if they do not have the paper to prove it from the most pristine establishment.
People are getting brainwashed since birth to think that way.
My friend didn't go to college for five years because he felt like he had no interest in pursuing a specific career and could get by without one. He was only ever able to find a single job in those five years and it was a holiday rush temporary job only, so one month. He finally caved and went to college just so he can get a degree and is taking many classes that'll either allow him to work in teaching, accounting, or screenwriting (the actual thing he would like to do to).
If people are wondering why Trump won so many of the laborer "uneducated" vote, there's a situation of why. And my friend has to get straight A's just to keep his scholarship because he can't afford the tuition and books without it, and it's only a couple thousand each semester (Compared to 30k tuitions).
That does indeed suck, but it doesn't excuse a lapse in critical thinking. At a certain point, I feel that it does boil down to ego and pigheadedness that is typical of the average American. It's why we so readily accepted the democratization of higher learning, rather than coming to grips with the fact that some people are just going to be better performers and more deserving of it versus everyone else. It's like the sinister hand of industry greediness purposefully guided the war against definable intelligence/excellence and used the ego of the masses to push it by dismantling divides in achievement and going all Oprah by "giving" college degrees to everyone. And in the process, the masses got the $100K pieces of paper they MORE than deserved, in every biting and sarcastic way possible.
Good on your friend, it sounds like he's getting all his ducks in a row at the very least. Do you think it helped him a bit to have waited several years before enrolling?
This. I took animation for fun really, now I work at an art gallery and do animation on my own.
Jaden was going through a rough patch, she needed to lift the workload so she had to break from her fear and ask others to do some of the work. She didn't like the idea of doing this because she felt worthless for doing it.
>went to a cheap state college
>classes weren't great but took independent studies with great teachers
>school's focus was on ideas anyway
>a little behind on technique but ideas are pretty grounded
>only 9k in debt for four years
any more than that and I'd feel I wasted money too.
>Do you think it helped him a bit to have waited several years before enrolling?
Most likely not. His family fell into financial problems around the middle of that so it was more stressed for him to find work + he felt like he was just being an extra leech living off of them. It would've been impossible for him to suggest college because they couldn't afford it and he didn't want to risk putting all his bets on a scholarship during times when they had no money to fall back on.
Had he entered earlier prior to all that, he would've been about one year away from graduating, been secure in knowing he could get and hold a scholarship, and would probably be able to help them get some money on the side by doing neighbor's taxes for cheap or something (Which is something my mother does during tax season).
Because ME GOOD YOU BAD! MUH HIERARCHY!
Did she do all of her "face reveal" by herself, or had she help already at that point?
The problem is that economically we're fast approaching a world were those who are "lesser" in "talent" or "ability" or "performance" won't even be able to put a fucking roof over their head.
As a concept artist You have to get basic knowledge of 3D programs.
And have already 2 years of experience...
And yet we will live in a world with the ability to provide to everyone and more, but with most unable to afford to.
I am not saying it's an ideal solution or if it will even work, but Universal Basic Income will become more and more alluring those establish, the more and more people realize most of them won't be able to find a decent job.
I like it when the style is used to make information easier to digest, sorta like how overly sarcastic productions,Vi hart, minute earth and physics and cgp grey do it.
>ITT:if you aren't the best of the best you're gonna die in a gutter
americans consider universal healthcare to be a controversial topic and you think they'll ever even consider universal basic income?
>You have to get basic knowledge of 3D programs.
Really? What for? I'm just gonna assume to make 3D stages to paint over since I see that a lot in pre-production work, but I always assumed they just had to be amazing illustrators.
I think that was all her, I didn't see anything that was out of the style she uses other than the line quality. It was also a very personal video for her, one she said revealed stuff to people that were pretty close to her so I doubt she asked for help on it. She also mentioned in it how she was going to start asking for help, implying she had yet to.
Universal Healthcare is a socialist concept that the right hate.
Universal Basic Income is a Neo-Capitalist concept that the left hate.
It will not get the same reception.
That's basically how it works. Most of the animation students I know draw like gods.
In the words of poet Theodore Mobisson
>You can either sink, swim or be the captain
>if you aren't the best of the best
Except that's not true in the slightest, if animation companies hired people for their talent then cartoons wouldn't be absolute shit right now. Most people get jobs in the industry through nepotism.
Everybody is going to die in a gutter but the eight assholes that own half the globe.
Remember to join Americorp to get loan forgiveness and extra grace period.
Goes without saying. We've never had this many people walking the planet before at one time, and we've never had so many governments unified in trying to provide benevolent support for said people, and we've never had such widespread welfare provided by said governments for other countries. It's a super bizarre journey into the unknown, but we all know that ultimately it's not tenable in the long run given the current standards of that which keeps it afloat. It's either going to have a massive paradigm shift in regards to how we place value on commodities and how economies maintain balance down to the level of the individual (which is simply mind-boggling, all things considered), or the whole fucking thing is going to remain propped up on illusions and debt until it comes crashing down and winds up killing an incredible amount of people in really cruel ways such as mass starvation.
When I think about shit like this, my inner Republican gets freaked the fuck out and I get so worried over how massive everything has become, and simultaneously my inner Democrat freaks the fuck out because I realize how unnatural and jury-rigged basically all aspects of our social welfare truly are.
There ought to be a compromise between merit and nepotism.
Why don't we mix in a little bit of both? Actually, wait a minute, it's already like this, no?
>There ought to be a compromise between merit and nepotism.
No?
Well, beyond how the substance itself was something, the animation and direction in it was really good too.
>animation student
Why? Why should people incapable of making connection get a leg up? If I was hiring, I wouldn't want someone who's cripplingly socially retarded.
Because when being good with social connection is part of the job requirement, it's not nepotism anymore but merit.
Both of you.
How does it fee knowing thatl you're paying for the Dean's 3rd mansion?
Mostly because of time.
Some article about it:
evenant.com
FZD School teach students use SketchUp and Zbrush.
Damn, that completely changes how I viewed most concept artists. I always thought they were just god-tier lightning fast artists when they're really just geniuses at work-arounds and combining mediums.
That depends.
If You wanna work for AAA games or movies - 3D is a must and be in top tier.
Small comapny/indie/mobile games - good artistic skill will be enough.
The industry needs more quality draftsmen so maybe focus on that
Alright guys, I need some advice.
I turned 18 3 months ago and I'm finishing up my last semester of high school beginning in January. I have no idea what to do at this point. I want to make an animated series or feature film. I'm a pretty decent drawer and I've applied to go to MCAD in Minnesota as I live there. What are my chances? Should I give up my animation dreams because I'll have to move to California or is it possible to start something here? Also, what can I be doing right now to help me get there.
I've got about half a year to figure out what the fuck I want to do with my life. I need some pointers, especially if there is industry officials ITT. It's the end of 2017 and it's fucking game time.
>I want to make an animated series or feature film.
When you say "make", do you mean "draw", or "determine the story and direction of"?
Because learning how to draw isn't going to make you a writer. It'll just mean you're drawing inbetweens for someone's lesbian space rocks. This is a disconcertingly common misconception.
just kill yourself
I want to write and direct an animated TV series that is serialized and is mixed media for television. I don't want to draw Steven Jewniverse characters.
Thanks.
Why would I do that? my daily life isn't in any way interesting? What would I blog about even?
why my waifu is superior? why im currently unemployed and on the highway to becoming a hikkikomori?
>I don't want to draw Steven Jewniverse characters.
Then you're not going to get any experience and therefore no work. You have to pay your dues working on the shows of other people before you're ever going to get a chance to pitch your own.
Participate in projects you may not like.
Make connections.
Move to where the work is, if that's the work you want.
It's not terribly complicated, but it will require a stupid amount of luck and charisma to be able to network with popular people
I would if I could. My family and friends are all here and I feel like I wouldn't fit in by the Low Angeles/Burbank area. Might be time to study something different then.
>I want to write and direct an animated TV series that is serialized and is mixed media for television. I don't want to draw Steven Jewniverse characters.
If you want to write the series, you probably need to learn how to write more than you need to learn how to draw. Industry familiarity can be important, but building renown and a following as a writer will be worth a lot more than drawing ability if you're trying to convince people that your writing is good enough to invest massive amounts of cash into.
I can't actually think of many examples of 's approach working. Giving someone a writing/directing position as reward for their years of drawing is like making someone your CEO because they've loyally served as the company janitor for so long. Even if you manage to pick up the skills necessary for it, you'll be competing with people who have been specifically training those skills.
Think screenwriting would be the best option then? I'm more interested in writing the stories and scenarios than actually animating the damn thing.
Iunno, maybe someone who couldn't make a connection were victims of circumstance rather than social retardation. I mean I wouldn't expect one person who happens to work for a studio to remember every goddam person who talks to them.
Maybe this person is the type of person you have to run into every other day for them to know you or him, exists. Or maybe you have to meet him at some point thats not a large convention where everyone's face and personalities mesh so much together you may as well forget half the people you met. Might have to end up taking unpaid internships, which some may not have the liberty to take anymore.
I mean making a production fundamentally requires someone to be able to talk with others and work with them. If they truly are serious about it, they'll put in work.