Did Alonso's strategy pay off?

Do you think Cebulski will continue Alonso's strategy of trying to get the female audience?

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>Did Alonso's strategy pay off?
Comics are still dying so no.

Interesting that they don't have market research. So basically Marvel is being going at it blind versus some assumptions that a lot of it was a coldy calculated move at maintaining their dominant position..

>conventions
Yeah, because attention whore cosplay sluts pull a ton of books every week. Sure.

They are also not flocking specifically to public gathering in large numbers and are actually completely proportionately representative of the general m/f composition of comic book readers, despite themselves probably never having read a single comic book and only watching capeshit movies and maybe some animated stuff at best.

They found out the hard way that you can't exchange virtue-signaling for actual currency.

>Did Alonso's strategy pay off?
The idea is not bad, the execution was terrible (arguably maybe three or four relative successes?) and because they did it in a haphazard way it's cost them badly the last two years.

He isn't wrong, women readers are increasing (Maybe not in large doses) and they ARE starved for content.

However, what we got still isn't the shit they were looking for, because those comic readers are not SJW Twitter fanatics. They're usually shut-in's who want cute guys going on fantastical adventures. Basically the opposite sex of a male comic book reader, who knew!

>no market research
>hemorrhage money with terrible ideas
>Make books men don't want to read
>Make books they think women want to read
>Marvel has no fucking marketing research to know what women actually fucking want
>based book off of tumblr shit and making current readers mad
>shocked that women aren't buying the books
>double down anyway
>women still aren't buying the books
>kids still aren't buy the books
>men are now not buying the fucking books
>No one is buying these fucking books
>start blaming everyone except themselves
>double down on calling their current readers shit (except if you're a minority or a woman then you're golden)
>shocked the books still aren't selling

Alonso's marvel was fucking terrible. The movies were the only good parts of his era and he had nothing to fucking do with those.

>while we don't have market research the eyes don't lie
>this is an executive at a major company
Also there IS market research on this topic.

DC's market research simply confirmed that their readership is predominantly older, whiter, richer males, who buy a lot individually and are dying out, literally, because DC no longer attracts younger readers.

I think about two or three relaunches in they just gave up caring.

Yeah but seeing Bendis realize he simply isn't qualified for a management job and quit was kind of glorious.

Ryan Higgins is a Bay Area bleeding heart who cries about the president on a near-daily basis and even he'll tell you these people aren't customers.

> cute guys going on fantastical adventures.

Kinda want an example for dis pls.

If only there were...

>Do you think Cebulski will continue Alonso's strategy of trying to get the female audience?
They can try to make a few comics for girls, Gwenpool and shit like that, but most of these shit is waifu territory for lonely nerds, girls don't usually buy comics Marvel, they had Archie Comics and Manga

Manga.

>and they ARE starved for content

Based on what? If they're ALREADY coming to the conventions, that suggests they were drawn in the content that already existed

>market to people who dont buy the product
wow brilliant, way to go alfonso

I used to follow Kelly Sue DeConnick on tumblr (I know), and at the height of the "Carol Corps" it was them all sharing the digital codes and torrents.

and these were Marvel's "biggest fans"

>ignore core fanbase to cater to women with shit writing and awful characters, and never thinking that female fans might be fine with preexisting characters

going to conventions and spending money at conventions are two different things.
last con I went to, artist alley and the comics stalls were ghost towns, and the cosplay areas and celebrity areas were crowded

>that suggests they were drawn in the content that already existed
No, it suggests they got introduced to certain characters via the movies and they really wanted to read light-hearted comics about Cap and Bucky going on adventures but couldn't find any current running series with that, so they settled for fanart at Artists Alley because they're so starved to have that urge satisfied.

Girls found comics they can relate to already. They're called manga.

The Marvel strategy so far has been akin to a takeout pizza joint adding tons of vegan soy tofu avocado options to the menu that are more expensive, the chefs/owners don't fully understand and are a clear attempt to pander to a hipster demographic that sticks to the other side of town. And the owners' justification for this is "for every fifty people who come in to order pizza and hot wings, one of them asks for salad options, and we hear all those vegan places on the other side of town make tons of money."

Of course it's a stupid and bad idea. But they'll do it anyway because they're willing to sacrifice profits for good goy points.

this seems highly appropriate considering everything now seems to be judged by facebook likes or twitter retweets and not actual hard data that can be broken down

Alonso is not wrong but he catered towards Angry Feminazis and Soyboys instead of trying to get the female market.

They also hired awful writers with zero to no experience for their books and they tanked, who would've thought that people like good writing regardless of gender and race.

It's not as though they didn't know that the tumblr audience didn't actually buy their content. There're plenty of twitter posts from writers and editors (including Tom Brevoort) complaining about how the tumblr crowd will praise their ongoings up-and-down, but never actually *buy* anything. They just choose to ignore it and hope that eventually the investment will pay off. It's a basic case of sunk cost fallacy.

>their readership is predominantly older, whiter, richer males, who buy a lot individually and are dying out, literally
They're THAT old?

>Yeah but seeing Bendis realize he simply isn't qualified for a management job and quit
I still think they kicked him out the back door.

I dunno about fantastical adventures but The Robins.

Most of the female comic book readers in the 90's and early 2000's were DC fans and into Dick, Tim and Jason (even if he was dead). And if you look around a lot of the female fans are still into the Robins and the Bat-Family.

I assume most of them would be in their 40's and 50's going by the ages of most comic creators and famous dudes who claimed the grew up reading comics.

I mean they are old enough to be taken out if they don't lead a healthy lifestyle but not old enough to be croaking of old age.

Then again seeing how these are comic book fans the former doesn't seem out of the question.

Its also, proving a negative. like, tiger repellent. "look there are no tigers, our efforts are working!"

"more and more female readers are emerging". Is just a biased, unproven assertion, that there weren't female readers in the first place. Its one of those SJW/Feminist cult mentalities/methods. deny the existence of preexisting individuals that disprove the need for their guidance.

And, that there are in fact now more, AND that their efforts had anything to do with that, and it wasn't just a trend going on in spite in their nonsense.

Perhaps webcomics, internet sales, tablet phones, etc are responsible. Even conventions as others noted.. are less and less about actual comics. Movies, games, tv shows...

>Facts don't match my assumptions, but fuck it

Alonso somehow made Quesada look competent.

For all the talk about "MOVIE SYNERGY" and shit, there is FUCK ALL attempts at doing so. You'd think they'd make comis based off the MCU universe to whet the appetite of the MCU fans.

Sup Forums was fearmongering about the MCU will destroy the comics with "movie synergy". Bet you're wishing they actually did that instead of what they're doing now, huh?

What about GOTG?

Or Black Panther, Or Civil War, Or Infinity, Or Inhumans, Or basically everything

>Civil War

Comic Civil War came first. Unless you mean Civil War 2, then that's them trying to make a sequel event than follow the MCU's take on Civil War. We haven't seen MCU's Black Panther yet. Inhumans was a shitshow indeed, but IIRC the TV series was also Marvel Entertainment, right?

It's hard to say. I believe the story that he might've jumped to DC to get more involvement in the TV/movie stuff. If you look back at his work he usually kind of does things that happen to coincide with what the film/tv stuff was doing. Like Avengers Assemble happened to have the MCU line-up of the first film, and the main villain was Thanos who happened to have a cameo in the first film. Then he wrote the GOTG book maybe about a year or two before the film was out. And so on.

Staying at Marvel would've meant he wouldn't know what was going on with the films (since Feige cast him and the rest of the Committee out) leaving him with the Netflix shows, which have a questionable status since Disney is trying to compete with Netflix and still has to honor the current contract with Netflix.

Because even if you try a bit to genuinely pander to women, the fags swoop in to fag things up.

It's probably no coincidence that they did Civil War 2 the year Captain America: Civil War was out.

Oh and didn't Bendis kill Rhodey because he assumed he was gonna die in the movie?

>You'd think they'd make comis based off the MCU universe to whet the appetite of the MCU fans.

they do those.
they're all written by Will Corona Pilgrim, who is a Marvel marketing guy, and they're pretty much all shit

And he doesn't mean homosexuals, btw. There are straights who are complete fags compared to gay people. Example: Alonso.

>women readers are increasing
Proof? Conventions are not an argument.
>and they ARE starved for content.
See above.

Well yes Marvel believes every dime Image makes is rightfully theirs and will do anything to steal their audience.

yeah because they dont want their continuity fucked up or potentially hampered by some comic. Fiege is smart to just let the movies be the end-all for continuity. Easier for normies.

yeah, it's not the movie studio side forcing the comics side to change, it's the comic side copying every little thing the MCU does (or thinks they're going to do - remember Bendis's Rocket Raccoon with the annoying "Blam, Murdered You" shit before Guardians came out). Marvel comics is creatively bankrupt so they just attempt to rearrange their universe to match that of the movies/tv.

>Marketing

There's your problem.

>Oh and didn't Bendis kill Rhodey because he assumed he was gonna die in the movie?

That's still not the movie's fault. That's the writers jumping the gun.

What you've told me doesn't lead me to believe that synergy is bad. It's that Marvel can't even do synergy right.

there will always be comic book fans, because there will always be poor people. The real issue is convincing said poorfags to buy them instead of reading them here.

Well looking at where the article came from:

washingtonpost.com/blogs/comic-riffs/post/ms-marvel-marvel-comics-new-focus-on-women-characters-and-creators-aims-to-defy-the-scantily-clad-cliche/2014/02/04/bde11f7a-8dbd-11e3-95dd-36ff657a4dae_blog.html?utm_term=.04bef2210dba

That was back in 2014. I could understand why he'd think that, because Ms. Marvel was a hit by the sales levels of a new Marvel/DC character book in the 10's. But not surprisingly they really fucked things up from 2014 onwards.

DC did try a similar thing with DCYou and once they found out it wasn't working, they managed to course correct in less than a year. People forget how bad DC was doing in late 2015, to the point where Brevoort was getting a question of how they could be fixed, and months later taking a jab at DC's new logo.

But again, DC fixed things and got back on track. Marvel on the other hand started having very noticable problems in late 2015 (sales on ANAD relaunches dropped fast after the first issue) but they didn't do shit to fix anything over the next two years and only proceeded to anger all the fans--not just the old fans but also the new fans they were trying to get--AND the retailers.

THAT'S the true failure of Marvel recently.

They are/were around 45 in 2011 when the research I know about was done - so they're predominantly around 50 now.

This is kind of reflected in the creatorship too - name, off the top of your head, one big-name creator who's 30 or younger. Now 40. Not easy?

The thing is, from about 45 onwards, newly diagnosed heart disease hits 8% of males annually, year on year; that's either fatal (diagnosed post-mortem) or expensive (diagnosed at a checkup) and tends to lead, in either case, to lifestyle changes (or without them, in the second case, an early death).

That's across general population too - and it's not just heart disease. Diabetes, cancer, all kinds of things get more common, but when you're talking about the drive-everywhere dads and the single men who live on pizza rolls... it's probably higher than 8% for comic books, is all I'm gonna say.

Of course death is inevitable and predictable, but if you're a publisher and your readership dies off without being replaced, which is easily done if you're too busy pandering to the smaller, richer cohort, then you have a problem. There will come a tipping point when it's no longer viable to play to that audience despite their buying habits, because there just won't be enough of them.

I think his taking of movie development work and using it in his books was part of the reason they got rid of the MCC altogether. That's expensive development work to give away to the distinguished opposition in a $4 book, and we've known for years that movie sales are so vastly higher than comic books that comics don't drive ticket sales and movies don't affect comic books. Synergy for new readers is one argument, but you'd think after a while they'd realize it wasn't working.

>What you've told me doesn't lead me to believe that synergy is bad. It's that Marvel can't even do synergy right.

Actually that's is a more accurate statement. Other times synergy can work, like when DC incorporated Jimmy Olsen (the first comic appearance listed on wiki is a retcon decision made after the radio show) or made Alfred thin and had a mustache, but it does look like Marvel's problem is they don't know what to synergize and what not to.

>"women and minority buy comics, so let's shovel out half assed comics to cater to them"
>meanwhile dc puts out a dozen batman comics a month and rake in the cash

Moral of the story: Don't replace your heroes with women and minorities... replace them with Batman.

>Batman replaces Captain America
>Batman replaces Spider-Man
>Batman replaces Iron Man
>Batman replaces Captain Marvel
>Batman replaces Wolverine

Movie synergy doesn’t sell more comics. It never did.

Remember this? That’s right you don’t. No one does.

I used to run moderately successful booths at conventions. Cosplayers don't buy anything. They're there to get pictures and to show off their crafting/sewing skills, maybe go to costume contests. Hell, the booths that sell comics at cons tend to not do very well, and more often than not just sell their back stock that isn't selling at their normal LCS.

You'll have to be more specific, because that sounds like literally most comics.

>yeah, it's not the movie studio side forcing the comics side to change, it's the comic side copying every little thing the MCU does (or thinks they're going to do - remember Bendis's Rocket Raccoon with the annoying "Blam, Murdered You" shit before Guardians came out). Marvel comics is creatively bankrupt so they just attempt to rearrange their universe to match that of the movies/tv.

This is as retarded as making Street Fighter: The Movie: The Game.

The movies are based on the books. The good ones anyway. Just make more books like the old ones!

Well, that logo did look like a fucking toilet seat and said "Detective Comics Detective Comics Comics" so that certainly wasn't one of the things that was right with DC.

the last thing those girls at conventions do is reading also you should stop watching them and their revealing cosplays and start working on that research a bit

educating people about social responsability isnt going to get you many young readers either sorry

It was a bad logo but I can't really tell if he genuinely meant what he said or he was trying to imply DC didn't do much to fix the books.

The latter.

That just makes the reply by Henry funnier.

>Detective Comics Detective Comics Comics

you know the DC doesn't actually mean Detective Comics, right?
they're just two letters in honor of the series

>they're just two letters in honor of the series
So they do mean "Detective Comics"? Because I don't recall the series being called "DC".

>Captain Batmerica
>Batder-Man
>Iron Bat
>Bat-ptian DC
>Snikt-Bubman
I'll buy 20 each.

all they had to do is make the comics like the movies, they didnt even need good art or story
we are living in a world where people own tons of cape related shit, watch cape shows every day of the week and wait years for cape movies but still dont read a single comic

no.
they mean nothing.

I thought they were in honor of the series called "Detective Comics"?

They're certainly trying to cater to a new audience.

you're being pedantic, but the company isn't DETECTIVE COMICS COMICS and we've all just shortened that out of brevity.

See, these people want to sell something sophisticated. They want to get away from smelly white males, want their stuff to be highbrow art.

Well, let me tell ya: White males are your entire audience. You are selling McBurgers, not gourmet cuisine. You are peddling trash, and we are the only people who buy it.

Then again, manga tends to be more appealing. Comics don't deliver: In a manga, there's likely to be softcore nudity at some point. Even Tokyo Ghoul, which is trash, had an entire chapter of the MC having sex with his love interest. Has, I dunno, Black Cat ever got her tits out?

Kill femthor, replace her with nerdy college chick who turns into male Thor. As male Thor, she gets into awkward gaybait even though she's humble, straight Tina MacNerdus. Yowzers!

>all they had to do is make the comics like the movies, they didn't even need good art or story
That's retarded even for your standards, mousefag.

Based on the fact that a large amount of female readers have only read Sunstone. They don't want superhero comics. Top Cow is going to be their publisher of choice

>Well, I don't have any hard data or market research but I saw a girl at comic shop!

These are the people running companies

>Sunstone
>it's goddamn lesbians
>They don't want superhero comics
Fuck you dipshit, I want my comics about young love AND heroics.

>I have anecdotal evidence that more women go to cons and visit comic books
>that definitely means more women buy our capecomics, great success
Shame that he wasn't EIC longer.

>we don't have any market research (on the industry as a whole)
Not defending this shit, but the last time girls were into comics at all was zines.

>This is as retarded as making Street Fighter: The Movie: The Game.
>implying that people wouldn't pay a good penny to play as Raul Julia's Bison
RIP

>"More you struggle, tighter it gets!"
Why does this sounds like it comes from a rape doujinshi?

Because if the new direction and tweens that don't look 30 is any indication, they want
>boys
>girls
>fujos
>other
and this appeals to everyone

women aren't triggered by gays as much as you

That's why most of us read anime, user.

Couple of reasons why Alonso's an idiot for that statement.

1) Switching absolutely everything around to match a demographic with no research in how invested they actually are in comics
2) Instead of attempting to create new comics separated from what is already popular and simply push them individually, he forces the shit out of legacy characters, effectively attempting to completely replace his targeted consumer over night
3) Instead of simply producing quality stories and listening to criticism when changes are implemented (ala Stan Lee and Jack Kirby with the Fantastic Four), allows writers to attack IN BOOK detractors and change nothin, as if none of the major reading demographics would be mad about it

I'm pretty sure they know what kind of numbers of girls are buying manga and non-cape graphic novels, but you're right that it's dumb to try to just push new consumers into the area with the most absurd entry barriers.

>major reading demographics would be mad
But Breevort told everyone that angry fans buy more comics.

Marvel did it too many times, to the point fans turned apathetic.

And that's what's so sick. People don't read in the first place, comics are so far off the radar

But if they have the money to spend minimum 150 on the ticket for the con, they have the money fro comics then they're just choosing not to buy it.

The average American woman apparently spends $8 A DAY on make-up according to a survey done by some make-up website called Skinstore. That's enough for at least 14 comics a week.
You really think that these chicks are gonna cut into their style budgets for comics?

Who was worse Bob Harras or Alonso?

if they are gonna fuck the long-time, loyal fans in the ass for the new ones, might as well do it correctly, making the comics tie-ins of the movies. Im even surprised they didnt remade the Ultimate Universe into the MCU universe in comics.

Harras

Alonso can go on from Marvel to wherever and learn from his experiences there.

Harras is just repeating the same old mistakes over and over and over.

Unless you discovered immortality, you knew the day would come when you had to move on from your chillens stories.

thats bullshit, you are just making up excuses
books oriented to teenagers sell like hotcakes, thats the audience they keep complaining doesnt exist, just look at manga.
Maybe you jus stop making excuses and accept nobody had the slighetst idea of what they where doing and they completely fucked up? otherwise kill comics already because thats better than watching them die slowly

Thats a terrible analogy. In now way does putting a salad on your menu invalidate your pizza. If Marvel took that approach it wouldnt have gone so bad.
They would have added more experimental books while not affecting the main line.

No what Marvel did was take pizza off the menu, find talentless chefs to make food they knew no one would like (vegan or otherwise). Then proceeded to both defend pissing off their fans while ignoring their complaints about the food and say “well you just hate vegans”

They also insist your favorite waiter, Scott, is worse then hitler

its insane that they couldnt sell any comics while having more marketing than anything else in the world pretty much but whats even worse is that they kept doubling down expecting that at some point things would turn and it would magically become a hit
If american education keeps shitting out people like this we will see companies move completely out of the us in the next 20 years

not really no.

Over the past 5 years comics is the only print industry that grew. That grow appears to have been halted but YOU are the one who is talking out of their ass. Kill yourself nigger

>If you look back at his work he usually kind of does things that happen to coincide with what the film/tv stuff was doing.
I've mentioned a few times, his Marvel "carreer" was mostly mooching on movie synergy sales, as far back as Daredevil at least.

Would be funny if DC kept giving him false movie spoilers, as a joke.

>while we don't have any market research
Why not? Marvel is a huge company. Surely they could do some legitimate market research.