So finally caught up on Mr Miracle and enjoyed it

So finally caught up on Mr Miracle and enjoyed it.

So tell me why it's bad and all Not Muh and etc

darkseid is

Other urls found in this thread:

cbr.com/interview-tom-king-tackles-new-gods-mythology-in-mister-miracle/2/
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

I HURT MYSELF TODAY.

>Not Muh

That's pretty much it. People can't enjoy different interpretations of characters. Not to mention it's the omega sanction and he's just spiraling down but seems to be fighting back.

that page is fucking great

I love it. I caught up on three issues all and it really brought the whole thing together. The last two issues were super romantic. It was great.

Art is lazy.
Gets the whole mythos wrong.
Writing is less clever than King thinks it is.
It's a mess.

Fuck off and die.

>Art is lazy.
Gerads is okay. He definitely works for King's writing style.
>Gets the whole mythos wrong.
"Not Muh"
>Writing is less clever than King thinks it is.
You have to actually explain something wrong with the writing.

can someone explain why Omega Men was so acclaimed in the first place? I read it as a huge Kylefag and just didn't get the hype at all

Something I've noticed about this and how it uses the 9 panel grid that I didn't feel in Watchmen or Omega Men.
It feels like it has a beat, like I could read it to the time of a metronome. if I knew the right signature.

>"Not Muh"
Fuck. Off. And. Die.
If you don't understand why getting the mythos wrong is a problem you should go back to your subreddit.

Alright then, what is wrong?
Because the worst thing I've noticed is how OOC Lightray is.

I think it's brilliant.

>Not Muh

This is pretty much the main criticisms against it in a nutshell.

i put off reading it until i had read the 4th world and it doesn't turn me off? Or I like the other stuff enough to cover for it

I read Fourth World and I liked it.
I'm reading this and I like it.

The trick is knowing which stories are which. As long as its good I can get over my autism.

Isn't the point how weird everyone is? Scott trying to kill himself, Oberon is dead but Scott remembers him being alive, Godfrey and all that TV stuff, etc.

Everything is wrong and Scott has to escape it.

The last time this happened with a Mr. Miracle, Shiloh got shat on pretty bad. At least Scott has Barda, although I'm afraid that she's the final barrier to escape.

>If you don't understand why getting the mythos wrong is a problem you should go back to your subreddit.

You assholes need to stop acting as if "getting the mythos wrong" is a goddamned blasphemy. If Sup Forums existed in the 80s, you'd be complaining about how The Great Darkness Saga doesn't get the characters right.

>I'm afraid that she's the final barrier to escape.
I agree, but I'm not sure which direction it'll take.
Either Barda and their love will be the only thing anchoring him there, or her rejecting him at the end will be the thing to break him.

I expect a gut punch. Their love is really on full display right now. In this implied situation. Expect heartbreak.

Shit pacing, shit dialogue, weak art that tries to be impactful but fails, and an over reliance on being diffrent from previous Fourth World stuff for the sake of being diffrent, without actually bringing anything new to the table with merit. It feels like stuff that's already been done before but done poorly with no clear intention behind it.

I could copy and paste this incredibly vague post into any comic.

If you're going to pretend that it doesn't have shit pacing, King dialogue and that it's clearly spinning it's wheels without any idea about what direction it wants to go then be my guest user. But don't pretend that these aren't flaws inherent to King's work as a whole that anyone can recognize.

I still don't know what your talking about. What specific dialogue and why is it bad?
Also I don't see any problem with the pacing. There's more to it than just an A ->B plot. King does a great job telling a really personal story about Scott just there forming the right moods and with the way he sets up scenes. Its something that isn't seen in a lot of comics anywhere.

Literally just read the entirety of Kirby's Fourth World recently. Seems fine to me. A lot better than most other contributors to the mythos.
>tfw morrison's portrayal of orion more out of a character than the portrayal from a guy who clearly has a hateboner for orion

...

It's OK, not as bad as Sup Forums says it is but also not as awesome as people say it is. The comic is enjoyable but highly overrated and gets wanked too much everywhere else.

That said this last issue wasn't as great and it really dragged on forever and everything for tbe baby reveal (which was fricking obvious pages before). I did like the last three paged and the theology joke

Also when the fuck is King finishing Sheriff of Babylon?

I'm surprise how decent Gerads is in this comic since his art is usually really shitty on other comics and he shamelessly traces, even from other artists.

It's actually Darkseid Is. Pleb.

Sup Forums liked it, then they liked Vision, but Mister Miracle and Batman are hated by this board.

Honestly I didn't much cared for Omega Men either, I liked Vision and Sheriff of Babylon better but at this point I'm pretty tired of King, especially since he tends to do the same suicidal or self destructive and depressed protagonists (usually because he has seen some shit) for most of his stories (Grayson being the exception).

I however have liked his one-shot stories (The Hal as Lightray story, his Batman/Swamp Thing story, and the Elmer Fudd/Batman story) I feel like he works really well with brief stories.

Prettt sure something like that will happen or we'll get the New God version of loss.jpg

It's King so it won't be happy.

That annual was good too and a few of his 2 issues only stuff like the proposal and superman banter was gold as well. Even if it had the tiresome batcatbatcat bullshit.

Eh I think people are split on MM in Sup Forums but yeah reddit wanks it too much. I went to /r/comicbooks and saw that they had an award thing for 2017 comics and most if their awards went to King and Gerads.

Vision was melodramatic trash
BVatman/Fudd and Batman/Swampt Thing were also very light on story and Fudd especially relied on a gimmick
Superpals was awful
Annual was half decent, half trying to hard to leave his mark

I was surprised how much I liked his Superman and Batman moments, I was nervous about it because he did say he thought the character was boring but he did good with Bruce and Clark's relationship.

In a Batmam context or how Superman plays off of Batman he does well, still I wouldn't trust him to write a Superman solo.

It made me happy when Orion died becausr he's finally free.

Sheriff of Babylon is over dude.

TO SEE IF I CAN STILL FEEL

Your criticism is nothing Buzzwords.

You don't understand that we can't judge the book's quality on whether it keeps everything Kirby wrote intact or not due to the nature of the story.

I FOCUS ON THE PAIN

Same. It's so sad for me to see Orion and Lightray get shit on the whole series.

It’s pretty good it’s just overrated

THE ONLY THING THAT'S REAL

Pretty much this. It's one of the better comics DC is publishing right now, but the people that are slobbering all over it just seem like self-loathing elitists that will desperately latch on to anything that proves "their hobby produces REAL ART!"
>reddit
And that's kind of the problem as well. Thematically, it ticks all of the "rick and morty is for people with a high IQ" boxes. It's this weird mix of nihilism/depression and flippant whimsy. It's so self-indulgent that it refuses to own up to its own self-indulgence. King is simultaneously "killing" Stan Lee, comparing himself to Jack Kirby, and then whining about how he'll never feel "good enough" to actually measure up. It's perfectly balanced for the emotionally imbalanced twenty-something who thinks he doesn't deserve to live but also deserves to rule the world.

This board is made up of people who consider Tomasi's Superman and Doomsday clock the peak of capeshit. So no wonder this'll be hated on Sup Forums.

You're perfectly right on that Rick and Morty thing.

Really? The 2016 awards were pretty much "What Tom King book is the best?" He really is overrated.

I didn't know people could be autistic enough to be triggered by comic book characters

damn, if that isnt spot on.

People that love Mister Miracle also love those two.

Not an argument.

When people praise those King comics it's always just buzzwords too.

that was acute user

People that love those two want capeshit to be "fun" and not edgy like 80s and 90s comics and King's comics.

...

Mister Miracle is "fun". The whole dialogue for 6 is " lol they're talking about redecorating the house while killing people" or how about "dude lol I am theology". And then there's " what even is darkseid is? people just say it because it sounds cool" or the wacky carrot eating scene. It's bleak in atmosphere but the dialogue is "fun" and there are "wacky moments". People think this contrast is brilliant.

No one said it was an argument.

In my opinion, it has been one of the dullest series in the history of comic books. Each issue following the escape artist and his pals from New Genesis as they fight assorted existential threats has been indistinguishable from the others. Aside from the gloomy imagery, the series’ only consistency has been its lack of excitement and ineffective use of distortion effects, all to make the divine seem mundane, to make action seem inert.

Perhaps the die was cast when DC vetoed the idea of anyone with talent from pencilling the comic; they made sure the series would never be mistaken for a work of art that meant anything to anybody, just ridiculously profitable cross-promotion for their films. The Mister Miracle series might be anti-Christian (or not), but it’s certainly the anti-Kirby series in its refusal of wonder, beauty and excitement. No one wants to face that fact. Now, thankfully, they no longer have to.

>a-at least the writing is good though r-right

"No!" The dialogue is dreadful; the comic is terrible. As I read, I noticed that every time a character from the Fourth World cursed, the author wrote that the character said "Jesus"

I began marking on the back of an envelope every time that word was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. King's mind is so governed by cliches and dead metaphors that he has no other style of writing. Later I read a lavish, loving review of Mister Miracle by the same Geoff Johns. He wrote something to the effect of, "If these kids are reading Mister Miracle at 13 or 14, then when they get older they will go on to read Geoff Johns." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you read "Mister Miracle" you are, in fact, trained to read Geoff Johns.

Go look anywhere that has account names. Reddit, CBR, whatever. The same people that are hailing Doomsday Clock as a revelation are the same ones that think Mr. Miracle is one of the greatest comic books of all time. Of course these same guys also think Tynion's Detective Comics is incredible, King's Batman is the best Batman run ever (only narrowly beating out Snyder's for them), Young Justice is arguably the greatest cartoon of all time, Identity Crisis is the pinnacle of comic book stories, Geoff Johns has never written comic that isn't incredible, yada yada yada...

>So tell me why it's bad and all Not Muh and etc
It's primarily just people hating anything that is popular.

It's good but overrated. But can you blame people when all they have to compare it to is thrash like Rebirth and Legacy?
People screaming "not muh" are retarded since Kirby's fourth world was not even that good. It was light in terms of characterization and themes.

Oh boy, here come the Kingfags with their "Kirby was never good anyway!!" rethoric.

This. At least he won’t get raped any more in this run.

But hopefully Big "tranny" Bards will

I hope so. I hate how King turned her into a cunt.

And Gerard's into a tranny.

I was with you until you said Kirby's fourth world wasn't that good, you can fuck off now.

Prove me wrong then. Kirby should've never been allowed to write. Fourth world was full of ideas that are thrown to see what sticks and frantic pacing. It is only liked by people who haven't read enough sample size from that era. Jimmy Olsen was a better comic before Kirby and Mr Miracle was better after Kirby left. In the end it feels like nothing more than superheroes, rather than the epic mythology it has been billed as. There's a reason it was considered to be a failure in it's day.

>Each issue following the escape artist and his pals from New Genesis as they fight assorted existential threats has been indistinguishable from the others
Bullshit. This is just an outright bullshit statement that tries to ignore objective reality.

Shut up Stan you leech cunt.

It's the Harry Potter pasta user

>responding to pasta
How embarrassing.

Says a lot when people who try to preach the fourth world as some kind of groundbreaking comic can't even defend themselves as to why it's GOAT.
Excelsior!

>The Mister Miracle series might be anti-Christian
Wut?
>it’s certainly the anti-Kirby series in its refusal of wonder, beauty and excitement.
Man you're a poser ass bitch, Jack Kirby wasn't bob ross.

Truly amazing

I've been following the storytimes, and I wouldn't call it bad, tough it didn't really touch me yet. I don't find the retro art with the distortinos too appealing personally, but I guess I'm not supposed to. The whole thing probably tries to look like a surreal nightmare which it's good at.

So far most of the story have been Barda and Scott doing boring married interactions.
All in all, I guess it is still mostly in the exposition phase, so I can be patient with it, and it's not so bad that I wanna drop it.

Was one of the golden moments in it

It's half done. It should be past this "phase".

The only reason people like King’s run is because of Scott and Barda’s relationship. Basically a bunch of marriagefags and giantwomanfags living their fantasy through Scott.

Am I the only one that is repulsed by Big Barda? She is simply too big. There are no other waifus in this book, hence why I dropped it after #3

>self indulgent
i had no idea cartoons were supposed to be for ascetic hermits. gosh user, you have really high emotional quotient

no one actually thinks they're smart because they watch rick and morty. it's a joke that you're taking seriously where it doesn't warrant seriousness

My big complaint is King's handling of Orion. The recycled art was annoying at times, and some passages felt a bit pretentious.
Aside from that, it's a decent Fourth World comic.

>decent

The bar is low, but the bar isn't that low.

>My big complaint is King's handling of Orion
Same. The idea is that the world is different because of Anti-Life or something, but King's comments in an interview about Orion being privileged and raised with a silver spoon on New Genesis while Scott had the REAL struggle make me think he really believes it and hates Orion.

I am more repulsed by her shitty attitude.

>but King's comments in an interview about Orion being privileged and raised with a silver spoon
For context, King was talking about how other people wrote Orion.

No he wasn't.
He said that others wrote Orion as gruff, but that he's actually a pampered rich kid

cbr.com/interview-tom-king-tackles-new-gods-mythology-in-mister-miracle/2/

Well good for him because now he made all the casuals hate Orion. At least the new fandumb won’t taint Orion.

Still inaccurate.

>Orion is always written as this gruff, “Augh, I’m suffering!” kind of guy. He’s like the Wolverine of the New Gods, right? He’s like, “Oh, the world is so terrible, I’m the son of Darkseid, I’m destined to kill him, blah blah blah.” But, dude! He was raised in Heaven.

>He’s like the bully who’s actually just the rich kid who grew up in a mansion. He’s like, “Oh, you don’t understand me!” Dude, you grew up on the upper west side, what are you talking about?! Whereas Scott has been through the shit, you know? He knows what’s up. So this idea that Orion would come to him and be like, “You don’t know how to deal with pain!” Scott’s thinking in that moment, “Dude, you’ve never even experienced pain. You’ve experienced angst. You’ve experienced the theory of pain, but you don’t know what it’s like to have Granny Goodness as the only person you love.”

Well done at adapting the copypasta, you've gotten a few new suckers with it.

>orion
>bully
Whatever made him think that?
>the projection in the interview
He’s mentally ill.

I bet he read Mister Miracle and only skimmed through New Gods.

I’m seriously wondering where he gets these analogies from. Orion being a bully? Which run did he read to get that impression from because it’s definitely not like that in Kirby’s or any of the pre-2000s runs.

It's definitely a part of Cosmic Odssey and Death of the New Gods

He didn't say Orion is a bully, you can't just take part of the statement and treat it like that, he was basically saying that Orion seemed like a hypocritical character to him.

Now, I know next to nothing about this King guy - only that he's writing this and Batman, which so far has been ok I guess - but from the way he talks in that interview I'd guess that he grew up poor or barely hovering above poverty, either that or he had a particularly rough childhood/teenage. I personally understand how someone can see the character this way and actually believe it's quite a fair way to interpret it.

As for Orion's characterization in MM, it's not really bothering me at all, most comicbook characters change trhoughout history, sometimes in small ways, some other times in bigger ways, this is just one of those cases.

>I'd guess that he grew up poor or barely hovering above poverty,
Whatever, I grew up poor too. That doesn't mean I interpret soldier-characters as spoiled bullies.

>most comicbook characters change trhoughout history, sometimes in small ways, some other times in bigger ways, this is just one of those cases.
Orion in King's MM isn't just a change in character, it's an entire new character.

>As for Orion's characterization in MM, it's not really bothering me at all, most comicbook characters change trhoughout history, sometimes in small ways, some other times in bigger ways, this is just one of those cases.
let me guess you also like Snyder's Superman?

Also we literally saw Orion in Hal Jordan and green lanterns the same time Mister Miracle started. He acted nothing like King's. Orion was actually written character accurate.

also to that to this. I don't particularly give a shit how King interprets each character for his fanfics. I'm more mad at DC's editorials being incompetent idiots.

lmao that's like saying characterizing Superman as a dumb, racist hick would be fair because the character grew up on a farm in Buttfuck, Nowhere.

>let me guess you also like Snyder's Superman?
For a moment I was sitting here thinking "when has Scott Snyder written Superman?" Silly me. But to answer your question, I'm pretty much indifferent, but I recognize that his Superman is quite different from the character we all know and love.


>Whatever, I grew up poor too. That doesn't mean I interpret soldier-characters as spoiled bullies.
I think there was a misunderstanding here, what I took from King's statement on Orion was not that he was a spoiled bully, but rather that much like a spoiled kid, he had always had it easy, I agree this is probably an unfortunate idea and he's likely wrong but still, I can understand the reasoning behind it.

I guess then it's a matter of perspective, I've never been big on New Gods - and to be honest with you I only started reading DC a few years back, but I did read most of the classic stuff first - so maybe it's just not as relevant for me that a character acts as they did in the past if the story I'm given is good enough. Maybe they will be able to explain the change in his behavior in some other comic, perhaps we willsee Orion growing cynical as he observes nothing ever changing and Darkseid remaining superior, that'd explain his characterization.

Oh c'mon, you're putting words in my mouth, I'm just saying it's not that crazy to believe that a man who grows up in what's basically Heaven to be king of the gods is not as considerate of others' misery.

>much like a spoiled kid, he had always had it easy, I agree this is probably an unfortunate idea and he's likely wrong but still, I can understand the reasoning behind it.
It is definitely wrong. Orion's was born and lived for a while on Apokolips and his time on New Genesis consisted of fighting his dark side and hiding his face and nature (war) from a society that was completely anti-war. I can certainly understand King's reasoning if it was the reasoning of someone who never read New Gods.

>a man who grows up in what's basically Heaven to be king of the gods is not as considerate of others' misery.
Sure, but this idea King gives that Orion has ever been all "oh you don't understand me and don't know how to deal with pain!" is wrong. Orion broods and has a lot of angst but he's never been that way towards Scott, at least not in any of Kirby's work.