Haha, because I took away Kevin's semi-useful upgrade I've taken over the world

>Haha, because I took away Kevin's semi-useful upgrade I've taken over the world

Never understood the logic behind that as a kid, Kevin's powerup was cool but it wasn't that useful.

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Everything past the OS was a mistake

have you watched the ben 10 series? ben is literally alive because his supporting characters knew of his reckless stupidity and covered for him. he's be dead the first week except for gwen and grandpa covering for him blindly running into fights without thinking.

They were forgetting just how ducking bullshit his powers were in the OS, where the only thing that kept him from wiping the floor with Ben was how much of an idiot he was.

Couldn't Kevin's ability potentially be crazy powerful with the right stuff? That and Ben is kind of a moron so without support he probably got wiped

Wasn't too crazy about ultra sorceress Charmcaster, whatever ended up happening to her? Last I remember she basically had a dimension all to herself

to be clear, while useful, nobody liked the metamorpho look right?

I hated that bullshit. The OS made his powers grotesque and cool. In UAF he just gets a texture swap.

i'm more pissed at kevin paid the price for ben's arrogance.

What gets me the most is that he was literally running around almost naked literally everywhere while he was material man.

>Everything past the OS was a mistake

I get that they were using at as an excuse for him no longer being a evil, by retconning it so that using his powers in that way would warp his brain. But still if they wanted Kevin to become a good guy they could've just kept his powers the same but made him just grow up and get some therapy so he's no longer nuts. There was no need to downgrade him to uninteresting and mostly-useless powers in the process.

Then again if they were going to make one of the villains from the OS switch sides, they should've just gone with Charmcaster since she wasn't as over-the-top evil OS Kevin. Plus because she's hot.

Neither did I. Plus didn't he manage to keep his metamorpho powers even after reverting back to normal? I can't see how hammer hands make a difference while battling a magic user, specially with how versatile Ben and Gwen are.

There was that one episode where Kevin has this chunk of unbreakable alien crystal that he touches and transforms himself into it. So why didn't Kevin just ALWAYS DO THAT? It's not like there's any other substance he could transform into that would be more useful than being literally indestructible.

An user was saying he didn't like how the image going around of Ben's aliens used art from UAF and OV. So I did a quick and dirty edit

This seems like as good a place as any to post it

>UAF Charmcaster
way to suck out all live out of the original design, so fucking boring.

didn't they explain that he has to absorb enough of it to fully or partially transform?

gwen actually tried giving him a bag of various stuff for that purpose but learned it was a nice but useless gesture.

is there any real difference between Overflow and Water Hazard? power wise at least, because so far overflow looks like just like a WH rehash with a worse design.

as much as i dislike UAF I'll admit it had a couple of good episodes specially early during the first arc with those racist aliens i forgot their name. OV while having an odd artstyle it pretty much took everything that worked from the OS and UAF and combined it in a successful way, it might not be as consistent as the OS but it had some great episodes and arcs, hell i miss the threads we used to have specially the ones during the Frogs of war arc. Can say anything about the reboot since i haven't seen it.

highbreed

i liked serious ben (higher stakes, personal and universal) so it suited the arc.

What at the very least, the OS had the best Forever Knights, Plumbers, Kevin, and Vilgax

Without his upgrade, Kevin has to absorb material to fight
During a fight with Charm and Hex, he absorbs the rock of their golems, which allows them to control him, giving them the advantage
We literally see golem-kevin in the episode and everything

Overflow is hinted to have more power and weapons. That's it, it's like Jetray and Astrodactyl

true
though OV Kevin had its moments
, I liked him in the rooters arc and the two new monster forms they gave him actually look cool like his OS monster forms.

but Astrodactyl actually had powers that Jetray didn't had like the plasma whips and the ability to leave plasma constructs as he flies, also Astrodactyl couldn't do FTL space travel like Jetray. The little i have seen of Overflow is just stuff that WH can also do.

Thanks

I dunno user. While it’s true that OS had the best Vilgax, I feel like the best version of the forever knights belongs to ultimate alien, specifically during the Diagon arc. For once they were actually a threat, rather than just a bunch of generic thugs for ben to toss around whenever they needed some action

I liked the parallels they drew between Ben and George, and that he wasn’t actually a villain in the traditional sense. Templars can be fun when done right, and George was actually done right, a rare occurrence in the UAF to begin with

iirc Ben saw parallels with George and gave the old guy his shot.

it was a nice touch.

Wasn’t it the other way around? George drew the parallels, saying something along the lines of “you know what it’s like for people to underestimate you, and tell you you’re wrong, only for you to actually be right. Look at all the good you’ve done. Let me do the same”, and Ben was like “yeah, you’re right, I’d want somebody to give me a chance too. Ok, you have one shot, go for it”.

It was one of my favorite arcs of the series, and I was disappointed we didn’t get to see the fallout from it. The forever knights all died in the battle and they never mentioned George again.

i could be misremembering things.

that arc seems to have the least amount of reruns over here.

Oh same here. UAF doesn’t get any reruns in my area at all. If Ben10 is in, its always nuBen.

I’ll probably go back and binge the series again at some point when I’m done with school for the semester

highbreed
vilgax returns
gains the ultimatrix

after that, it usually goes back to the high breed arc.

Which is a shame, because that section is arguably better than 3/4 of the shit they try to improve by shoving Vilgax into it.

He’s really a villain best used sparingly.

i was disappointed that they didn't use the highbreed on OV aside from the bailiff.

the whole incursean thing could've ended way earlier if ben remembered he had the freaking highbreed supreme on speed dial.

but seeing vilgax rebuild from the ground up was satisfying.

Same here. The Highbreed arc was generally good, but the ending and lack of follow up left me feeling unsatisfied. I wished we could have had a B plot in one episode that showed Reiney while he came to terms with his transformation, and his decision to back up Ben out of nowhere. Last time they spoke, the guy had exiled himself and had seemingly learned nothing from his time spent with Ben. And during that episode, it made sense. Sometimes you CANT change deep seated prejudices. So what changed?

As for ending the Incursean invasion, it may have been that the Highbreed were done with war, and no longer willing to suicidally throw themselves into combat situations. Though it would have been nice to see them get called at least. OV brought back so many old characters that the lack of Highbreed does seem glaring

i always interpreted it as the time alone gave him time to introspect on his way of life.

he did mention he came to terms with his new hand (and the abilities that came with it).

his last appearance was trying to stop that sleeper unit from finishing his pre-determined doomsday protocol.

with the highbreed bailif, i always thought that was the reason vilgax went with the trial by champion thing. he gets to conquer without incurring their wrath now they've went lawful good/neutral.

Yes, that’s the interpretation that I think the writers wanted us to have. But it would have been nice to have a “zuko alone” style B plot showing that alongside whatever Ben was doing off world.

As much as people like to shit on the trial by combat thing, I always found it to be an interesting concept that was poorly implemented. They brought it up for one episode but then never mention it again. You can’t do that and have people take it seriously.

Like, ok. It was a thing created by the Galvan to reduce the casualties of war. Yeah, that sounds like something they’d maybe be into, but they never brought up anybody who has successfully used it. Were there any planets who actually got rid of their armies in favor of training a single champion? What happened to the planets who lost? Did they get to live in peace for having “surrendered” after their champion lost, or were they wiped out without a fuss?

vilgax playing by the rules then ignoring it afterwards the first chance he gets really undermines the whole thing.

But it is in character for him. He wants the rules to apply if it makes his life easier, but if it doesn’t he wants to say “screw the rules I’m fucking Vilgax”

See also the whole “no-watch ben” arc, where he partners up with Eon, only to stab him in the back by revealing that ALL alternate Bens would be destroyed

more of if he was sneakier about it. like how being more subtle in sneaking lewd parts past the censors is more intellectual than just ignoring the censors.


minor thing: do the incurseans fear ascalon or at least treat it as some taboo/boogeyman?

using it against them in the invasion/occupation would have been interesting.

Here's a fun game: You're the new writer on Ben 10 and have been asked to come up with the next big upgrade for the Omnitrix. You can't do anything that's already been done

Alternatively, you've been given the chance to write your own little spin-off in the Ben 10 universe. The only restriction is that you must include at least 1 central concept/organization as the focus of your spin-off

How about being able to combine aliens to make a fusion?

>Show set in the 50's during peak alien phobia
>Follows a small band of Plumbers in New Mexico dealing with first instances of contact with extra-terrestrial life
>Everyone is a space-racist but overtime grow to learn compassion for all the aliens
>Except those mother fucking Chimera Sui Generis
>One Plumber has a proto-omnitrix that can temporarily transform into whatever alien is nearby for diplomatic purposes, instantly mistaken by the team as a weapon
>One of the Plumbers thinks he's a werewolf, literally everyone else is convinced, turns out his Dad was just really into banging hot alien Loboan pussy back in the day
>Wacky procedural space cop show with occasional ties to mysticism and magic when they aren't punching those filthy goddamn Mon Kalamari in the face

do people actually want to see what the omnitrix aliens civilizations are like? some sort of universal road trip would be interesting, just not sure who would be going.

Yes. It’s part of the reason why they set up an intergalactic road trip hook at he end of Omniverse to begin with. There’s SO much that could be done with that concept.

IIRC it was going to be Ben, Rook, Kevin, and Gwen. Maybe one or two extra bodies they picked up mid-series or something

i keep forgetting they set that up.

must have confused with that time war they've setup as well.

They finished the time war. That was the thing with Eon and Vilgax

>Upgrade to the omnitrix
Be able to change the age of the aliens you transform into. Certain ones have different characteristics at different stages, like Swampfire’s bloom form, while others have different biological needs, like the difference in water requirements between Ripjaws and Patelliday. I’m sure there are others out there

> spinoff
Set it in the far future, and have the main hero be somebody not related to Ben. Preferably it would be a species that isn’t human, though one would definitely be on the team.

The Omnitrix can teleport the user and friends to anyplace where it scanned a new species.

Oh, I see. I think you meant “underlines” as opposed to “undermines”. A small misunderstanding

They never mention Ascalon again, but I headcanon it as that it’s sort of a little known fact among Incurseans. Like, nobody hides the fact that it exists, and it probably used to be well known, but now only a few people are aware of it, most notably the royal family and maybe a small handful of scholars or important generals. Probably if Ben had shown up with Ascalon Milleous might have been willing to back down, but I can’t see Attea taking it quite as seriously. She seems much more cocky. Maybe she’d try to steal it just to prove she could.

man, how much AF stuff did OV drop/ignored outside of the rooters retcon?

They dropped and retconned a fair amount. Primus is gone (though Eunice made a cameo in the harem game show episode), the esotetica were dropped, along with almost all of the Forever Knights, I don’t remember seeing the Plumbers Helpers again outside of the Rooters arc either.

I mean really the biggest things in UAF were the Highbreed (dropped), Aggregor (retconned), Crazy Kevin (dropped, retconned, and mangled to eternity) Albedo (given a larger role due to Galvans being somebody’s favorite alien or something), and the Diagon/George arc (dropped).

Am I missing anything?

ben having nanites from the generator rex crossover.
vreedles are back as bounty hunters (blew up a plumber facility by mistake).
budding gwen charmcaster friendship dropped.
i think that's all of them.

safe to say the rooters getting AF aliens is deliberate right?

very nice, about the only change I'd make to the chart now would be to reorder them in Debut Order

same, hell they don't even have UAF on Hulu over here, just OS and OV

I didn't like the change from secret society that harvested alien artifacts to xenophobic anti alien organization, I prefer the OS version of the Knights it felt more mysterious and morally ambiguous.

give the Omnitrix an add on gun/beam that can temporally turn someone else into an alien of the user's choice, thus we get to see teamwork between different aliens.

Eh, I don’t consider the crossovers to be terribly important to canon. They might actually BE canon, but it’s one of those things that you probably needed to watch both shows to understand the importance of.

As for the Vreedles, that WAS something that rustled my jimmies. They had several episodes devoted to them, and actually got a redemption arc, only to throw it away. They could have just as easily used some of the pretty boy clones to fill in for them if they wanted a replacement. Yes, I’m mad.

Gwen and charmcaster wasn’t totally dropped, though they did change the circumstances a bit. I kinda interpreted it as Gwen and Hex worked together behind the scenes to rehabilitate her, given that Hex works at Gwen’s college, and Charmcaster eventually showed up somewhat less crazy during the harem episode

I guess it’s a matter of opinion then.

I liked the idea of an actual “Forever Knight”, a guy who lives forever as a protector of earth. He didn’t actually hate all aliens, and had no problem being cordial to Azmuth when they first met. (And after too, despite the fact that the guy was trying to stop him from doing what he thought was in Earths best interest) Ultimately he just wanted his home to be safe. It’s the other guys that he surrounded himself with that seemed to want other species dead rather than simply gone.

...

...

...

So a couple of threads ago, somebody posted this "continuation of omniverse" pastebin that had episode names and a few notes.

pastebin.com/fzdBtUfq

I'm feeling creative tonight. Anybody want to chat about that with me?

you live long enough to see others turn YOU into the villain.

it was awesome how despite the little to no foreshadowing he came out of retirement to put his house back in order.

There has to be at least one episode with the little chills. they were fucking adorable, and I was disappointed that they never showed up again.

Maybe they could show up in "Benny's Daycare" (season 1) or "Child's Play" / "Runts of the Litter" (both season season 7)

...

Don't worry guys this looks like a job for

FOUR ARMS

What is the name of this alien?

Muscle Memory

You just know he'd been waiting for the moment to come out of retirement though. He'd been watching, and waiting, biding his time for when the world needed him again.

He knew about Roswell. He knew about the Highbreed. He knew about all the alien bullshit that was going on, but it still wasn't his time yet.

No, he was waiting for the day that somebody fucked up and invited the Diagon back into their dimension, when he'd have to go full on savior mode.

That was a shitty arc with shitty conversations.
>we're dying because we're inbred af.
>should we use our insane science to fix the issue, or start breeding with other lifeforms, or just kill the universe so we can all die?
>Mixing is degeneracy, we will never mix, mark my word.
>Ayy, you guys just need diversity. Here I'll use a power that my watch never used before or will ever use again and doesn't really fit on the purpose of its creation to send a wave across the Universe making all of you 56%
>Thank you human. We will totally mix from now on, mark my word

If they had brought up the concept of using the Omniotrix to fix other creatures (like say the Incurseans, who look like shit compared to Bullfrag), would that have made the solution more palatable to you?

>start breeding with other lifeforms
they've been rendered sterile at that point.

You'd think that they would have just swallowed their pride, and asked for help from the galvans or something.

hey I said it was good for UAF standards (specially considering the shit show it became in Ultimate Alien) not that it was a work of art or anything like that.
I still prefer the OS and OV over it.

if pride is such an easy thing to swallow then it wouldn't be a deadly sin

True, but we're talking about the destruction of their entire species.

They knew they were dying, but rather than be like "yo, tiny space wizards, we hate your guts 'n shit, but we're about to go extinct. do us a solid and fix us"

Instead they said "yeah, we're about to go extinct. so lets make everybody else go extinct too so that nobody can ever outshine us"

most of them are slaves they fashioned out of other species though

so their entire actual species probably counts in the hundreds if not less.

I'm not really sure where you're going with that, as we seem to be saying similar things.

The highbreeds were going extinct. Regardless of how many there were left, they still had the choice to NOT murder everybody else if they could have lost their pride for all of two hours.

Seriously, it didn't take that long for the DNA Repair Guns to do their thing. And even though there wasn't any such thing when they first started invading, Galvan Prime was one of the first planets they started invading. SOMEBODY should have noticed that those guys were good at inventing shit, and should have asked them for help.

saying that such a small contingent would be on board with such a genocide plan compared to a much more populated society.

besides, i already said they are too prideful to ask for help. if THEY can't fix their problem why would they think others can.

Good point. As it stands, the highbreed supreme (god that sounds like a fucking pizza or something) was surrounded by a small group of other old and sickly looking highbreeds. even among humans it's bad news when you walk into a room to be judged and the people doing it are all old guys with nothing better to do with their day than imagine situations to get offended by

and ultimately you're right. while its easy for me to say that they SHOULD have done X, their entire purpose in universe was to be so prideful that they literally can't see how other species could be of benefit to them except as mind controlled slave bodies.

guy whose Pastebin account that's on(as well as the guy who came up with Arc 10), I'd definitely be interested

true would be fun to see them again

Yes, but that crystal that grew out of Kevin broke that rule, so we don't know what's canon.

Tadenite is basically a knockoff Tiberium, that's why it broke that rule

The crystal was Taydenite, and it wasn't a property of the material itself, so much as it was the tech that was being used on him. Vulcanus straight up said that his device was fucking with Kevins powers in a way that forces his body to continue to produce Taydenite. Apparently that's a thing that can happen, as later in UAF, Inspector 13 said he planned to use Kevin for the same purpose - to produce raw materials for their weapons factories.

Sweet. You have any ideas that haven't been added to the pastebin or anything in particular you wanted to talk about?

The more Ben uses the Omnitrix, the more his own base DNA is affected. Over time, Ben's DNA mutates with all the alien genetics in the watch, as Ben unlocks more and more aliens to transform into. Eventually, Ben's DNA evolves to the upmost degree, and he is now in possession of what is called the 'Mother of Creation Gene'. He no longer needs the Omnitrix, because he IS the Omnitrix!

I once had a plot bunny where due to radiation from the Omnitrix and the natural adaptational quality of the human genetic code, humanity as a whole became a race of living Omnitrixes. At first it was subtle stuff, such as enhanced strength or reflexes, but as generations passed, it eventually became more and more obvious, until you had people straight up performing transformations

I’m disappointed we never got an evil Kinecleron by the name of “NM-E”

Man Of Action wanted to end it at the Vilgax Saga

Yeah, but in that one episode Kevin had a big enough piece of Taydenite tor fully transform himself into the stuff. And the chunk was still intact after doing so, so it should be reusable. Confirmed by the fact that Kevin didn't damage his own car whenever he turned into steel by touching it. So why not just always carry a huge Taydenite crystal with him and always turn himself into unbreakable alien super-diamond in fights?

But Ben gave the entire species enough genetic diversity to where they won't ever have to breed outside their own specues. I thought that was the point.

>Gwen and charmcaster wasn’t totally dropped, though they did change the circumstances a bit. I kinda interpreted it as Gwen and Hex worked together behind the scenes to rehabilitate her, given that Hex works at Gwen’s college, and Charmcaster eventually showed up somewhat less crazy during the harem episode

Which is bizarre since in the OS and UAF, Hex was the more overtly evil of the two. So how did that get flipped in OV?

You mean the last episode where Vilgax gets blown up for good by Ben's dad?