I’m glad someone is saying it

I’m glad someone is saying it.

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>industry dying because of unoriginality and propaganda faggotry
>let's not hire some actual unique storytellers

DERP DERP DEEERRRRR

You're right, but if you're just making comics for film adaptations, you don't actually care about the medium.

>Fuck this guy who wants to tell stories trying to maybe change the medium with which to do it
Faggot

Also stop posting Twitter literalwho threads OP

>thinking that someone just using the industry to sell their movie scripts is going to help it
lmao

Well that's dumb. If the story is good it shouldn't matter what the medium is as long as it is adapted correctly.

He's basically saying to never even try.

>>let's not hire some actual unique storytellers

because walking dead is soooo unique.

>Thinking someone changing the medium for cheaper in order to tell their story is a bad thing.
I don't know why Jim Zub has such an elitist outlook on the medium. He works in the part of it which is continuously churning out trash.

Point at this man and laugh.

Every comic. Every. Single. Comic. That you like or enjoy or hold dear that's older than a specific amount is someones failed concept for a Scifi novel or some other piece of media. X-men tends to be the most obvious, swear to god. Go back and read any of the older X-men stories from around pre 90s era and tell me it doesn't sound like someone was trying to tell a story that had nothing to do with the X-men and just changed the original character's names to make them work in the comics.

Fuck off with this elitist garbage.

Imagine being such a pathetic fuck.

None of you read comics. At best you read webcomics and think they're meritous in any way. Or you're cartoon fags shitting up a thread.

If you let ever writing a story without the medium in mind you aren't going to write a good story let alone be revolutionizing a fucking thing.

Mark Millar would like to have word with

What have you written user. Because you're clearly a writer. You clearly think you're opinion is worth shit. So whtchabe you written?

Because I'm going to guess you're a pathetic fat faghot sitting at home hoping your plot is so good you can write a book, comic or script out of it if you just sat down and put the time in.

MEANWHILE, AT MARVEL...

Hopefully English isn't your first language. I'm going to assume that you think comic writers are some incredible breed that outsiders can't become. There have been good and bad examples but what matters most is that someone wants to write a comic, then let them. It's not like the current collection of comic writers are anything special.

Who the fuck is Jim Zub?

Mark Millar had experience in comics before making his movie pitches into comics.

>Mark Millar had experience

The only good comic he ever did was ghostwritten by Morrison, the rest is either trash or movie scipts.

See user we kind of agree. But some asshole who wrote a movie script doesn't want to write a comic. They want to write a story that makes them money. Had they wanted to write a okicntheyd have written a comic.

Are we already at the stage where people start thinking the comics medium is too good for certain ideas?

Also real cute attacking my English when it's a phoneposting problem. You wanna say "fuck off phone poster" fine but beside the phone fuck up the English in that last post is perfectly fine.

But I'm sure you'll greentext the fuck up and say "perfectly fine" as if that refutes what I said.

What comic? Not being facetious, wondering.

>Anyone seriously thinking comics aren't one of the lowest mediums for storytelling

Pfft.

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>already
user it's been like that since before your newfag ass picked up a Scott Snyder trade.

Jeph loeb wrote challengers with sale because nobody thought he should be allowed to write comics.

Seriously guys Jim Zub has written across several publications

He is not that obscure

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red son, but only the ending

There is nothing wrong with using a comic as a platform to jumpstart a bigger production. A comic can effectively be done by a single person in their spare time in 1/16th the time as an animated short on a budget of $0. It helps introduce an audience to these characters, build a fanbase, and it's essentially a solid pitchbook that you can hand over to studios to let them know exactly what your vision is. I think a comic book is far more effective than a pitch book.

The problem lies in that he is a screenwriter whom I'm going to assume has no best friend artist to collaborate with. If he wants to hire a good artist, that's going to explode his budget into the thousands and defeat the whole, "Done by a small team with a zero dollar budget" motivation and if he hires a shitty cheap artist, he cheapens his own story.

If you care about the medium more than using the medium as a tool for storytelling, you're a bad storyteller.
i.e all these "COMICS ARE SO IMPORTANT"-people who write bad comics, because they like the idea of comics and what comics could be more than what telling a good story through comics.

If you think a story will turn out as good in all mediums, you're not wrong, but probably not knowledgeable in what medium it's suited for.

Nigger, I've written three books. Go fuck your momma's asshole raw, you elitist fucking Soyboi.

No, the ending was originally how S&S envisioned Supes' backstory, hence "Man of tomorrow".
Morrison wrote everything else.

We have indie games for that

A writer wants to write and tell their story. Is it wrong to use it as a vehicle for a movie pitch? I didn't realize comics were a sacred medium that are incorruptible. To me all that matters is if the comic is good. If it gets turned into a movie then all the power to them. Not to mention that people put together portfolios and run kickstarters all the time. It's the same thing, to present a visual representation of the story for investors to be interested in.

I see I struck a nerve and that you didn't even bother to make a decent rebuttal.

>Implying I don’t read comics

Nigga I just don’t see anything wrong with a guy trying to make his story maybe work in a different medium
Yeah his end goal shouldn’t be “make a comic so popular that it gets a movie, which is what I wanted to do in the first place”, but if he makes it work, and he works with the strengths of his medium instead of just making it the storyboard of the movie, then it could be pretty great, given it’s an interesting idea

What exactly is wrong with this sentiment?

I sympathize with him but I'm not sure if making the niche medium even MORE niche is a good idea.

Like vidya has this current problem where vidya "critics" and "journalists" are people who for one reason or another couldn't get a job as an actual news journalist or critic for the medium they actually wanted, and use vidya as a backup. So you got people who don't know shit about the medium just saying whatever the hell they want.

But the big difference here is that vidya is an incredibly popular pass time and lucrative industry. Vidya is so popular it manage to actual beat cable television in number of people who partake in it, something nobody would've ever imagine is possible in their life twenty years before. Wanting people to know their shit and have an interest in the medium in an industry becoming more and more marketed to a wider audience is a fair complaint.

But comics doesn't really have much of an audience to begin with. Big Two comics are already seen as nothing more then supplementary materials to merchandise, films, television and other stuff in general that aren't comics. Telling one literally who to fuck off is not only not going to change that but now you just took away an opportunity of having a plausibly good comic that could plausibly interest outsiders in this world.

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>The problem lies in that he is a screenwriter whom I'm going to assume has no best friend artist to collaborate with. If he wants to hire a good artist, that's going to explode his budget into the thousands and defeat the whole, "Done by a small team with a zero dollar budget" motivation and if he hires a shitty cheap artist, he cheapens his own story.
>tfw that's exactly what happened to be
>tfw the dream is dead

Well, I didn't use my comics to enter into movies, but all else fits.

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He's clearly talking about aspiring creators that are using Mark Millar as a guideline for a career in "creating comics". Mark Millar might have started as a serious comic creator but nowadays he's known for using comics as movie pitches. You see enough of this nowadays but even back in the early 2010's you saw a lot of one-hit wonder comic writers (usually from Image or indie publishers) that had a very "pitchy" idea contained in limited runs.

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You won't name them because "I won't out myself on Sup Forums" but really it's because you haven't. An if you've even "written" them then it's because nobody will publish them.

Beside that have you written a comic? And had it published? Because your ability to write an unpublished book doesn't make your thoughts on other non-comic writers writing comics any more valid than any of us.

The difference is those of us who read the shit for years know that non-comic writers just inject plots into stories with pictures they don't know pacing, characterization or how to use the motion of the eyes across a page to tell a story. Those of us who study the medium get annoyed when tourists thing "comics are lowest denominator shit anyone can write them."

>Zub

That wasn't S&S, that was the Buck Rogers writer Russell Keaton.

He's right. If you have no respect for the medium you shouldn't involved in it.
That goes for comics, film, literature or animation.

Also you didn;t need a twitter screencap for this post, you could have just typed it.

>comic book writers are comic book writers because their writing isn't good enough for a book, movie, or TV show
>most new blood in the comics industry is from webcomic artists and writers
>medium is dying rapidly
>"Ugh, don't you turn comics into a dumping ground for your failed shit"
Funny as fuck, since comics is specifically a dumping ground for failed writers.

It's NOT a dumping grounds, but I don't think it's fair to dissuade people for trying out all their options.

They can try to make a comic for their story, but if it's a shit story it ultimately doesn't matter, indeed.

I see a whole lot of "the medium is so sacred, if you dont respect the medium of comics enough your script should be trashed"
The medium of comics exists to tell stories, stories dont exist to prop up comics as a medium. If the story is good, you need only find a proper artist to collaborate with the writer in order to turn it into a good comic.
This isnt a fucking religion, its an industry that is dying because it refuses to do anything new, different, or maintain the few changes it finally settles on in its content.

THIS IS WHY WESTERN COMICS ARE A CONTENT DESERT.

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That's how you get original ideas for movies made though.

The first Dances With Wolves script got rejected since it was an original IP, so the writer simply published it as a novel, and then retard movie execs then got the movie made because "well, it's an already existing IP!"

That doesn't mean the author doesn't respect literature.

This all basically comes down to you saying "why not" and me saying "because the always suck."

You're an optimist I'm a cynic. We have nothing further to gain here.

And yes you did strike a nerve but it's clear my rebuttal was two parts. If you could read you would have noted the beginning of the second reply indicating it was a continuation.

You still haven't said you read comics by the way. So you don't? It's not wrong it's just that like Zub I'm simply saying it leads to a plethora of shitty comics with plots and stories more suited for visual mediums that employ motion or written mediums that require a lot of exposition.

"It didn't pan out" should never be the starting point for any work, not just comics.

i agree with
comics made based off a film is just another marketing strategy to make money like producing toys and such.
if the comics are made as a prequel or sequel to the film in question then its more forgivable as it creates a good avenue of originality.

If the story is good write a fucking book. Comics should be written specifically to be comics.

People like you are why western comics are shit. It's why there are people who actually think there's a cape book better than Born Again. THAT is what comic writers should aspire to. Art and story working together. Not a "good story". Because you don't need a comic to tell a a good story. You need a comic to tell a story you can't tell in prose or animated format.

I've dealt with these types of people before, and they're usually cheap dolts who have no idea what they're doing or what a comic is.

They don't pay.
They don't want to put in the time or effort.
They don't want to give credit to the artists.

It's like a having a bunch of kickstarters where they bolt after the first issue comes out 9 months late.

The industry doesn't need more Tyrese Gibsons.

>You need a comic to tell a story you can't tell in prose or animated format.
And what magical, mystical story is that? What special little snowflake story qualifies for this vaunted position?
fuck off, you're just putting the entire medium up on a pedestal and warding off new content for the sake of upholding your judgement about the entire medium.

>"but comics are dying"
And the best solution to this is to promote the idea that it's nothing but a cheap way to get the shit no one else wants out there.
It's not about being an effective marketing strategy, it's about respect for the art.

I'm not so eager as you are to put stories into boxes and say that media cannot cross-pollinate. Where's your sense of adventure?

I literally mentioned one in that reply. Fuck off you casual.

Do you recognize that some stories are better for mini series, full series and movies? The same goes for written books.

No, you mentioned an example. I'm asking specificaly what qualities about said story make it ideal for comics. Or incompatible with other mediums of story telling.
Take your hurt feelings and go if you're argument is "it is because it is"

You're a shill or a youngfag with hopes of making a franchise one day. Otherwise you have no reason to be here.

You should study comics more. They aren't supposed to just be plots told with pictures. If you don't need a picture to tell the story you're simply a a lazy novelist who doesn't want to write descriptions.

What do you expect? Comics are dying and no amount of quality control is going to save it in the long run. Comics becoming a dumping ground for uninitiated aspiring movie makers is the best case scenario for this forgotten artistic medium.

That sucks, don't it? Tough. That's the truth. Go ahead and pretend like if we all just come together and respects comics REAL HARD then the medium will be saved.

Come on everyone! Let's gather our hands, close our eyes, and appreciate comics REAL HARD!

We can save the medium!!!

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He's right, writing comics like a failed tv pitch is how you end up with Bendis.

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Probably the stupidest post on Sup Forums.

>This all basically comes down to you saying "why not" and me saying "because the always suck."

Ah, the old "you can't lose if you don't try" mentality. I hate shitty comics as much as the next person but I'd rather take chances on new comics than not have them exist.

The only exception would be comics that cause trouble like ruining characters or creating unnecessary controversy. Anything else is alright in my book. There's plenty of comics of varying quality that are made every month that none of us will ever be aware of. But some might discovered and storytimed and enjoyed.

It's a glorified movie pitch, who cares?

>Come on everyone! Let's gather our hands, close our eyes, and appreciate comics REAL HARD!

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>shill
do you fall back on this whenever you have no evidence for your argument? or are you just baiting poorly?

The fact that the art builds in unwritten ways during the climax.

As matts world comes crashing down the backgrounds in the labels become fuzzy and flat colors while he's on panel and keep their detail and normal coloring in the ones he isn't. When the reporter is on the phone hearing his informant at the hospital get killed there's an annoying menial discussion taking place. The word bubbles forcing you to read them to know it's more information you literally are not supposed to care about as you look for the word bubbles you want to read: the murder on the phone.

Matt is progressively shown through teach issue in a spread page laying down going from the fetal position to laying with his arms spread in a nuns convent as if he was Christ.

There is so much mazzuchelli and Miller fit into that script that normies like you who think comics are just plots with pictures would miss. It's why people have the balls to say Miller is overrated. Because they think any novelist could write a comic if they have an artist with them.

why go for comics when CN next line up has 5 "this is my self insert story I wrote when I was 12 and I never learned to write since then" shows?

Do you just take the bait or did that insult land? Because the point of that post stands whether you're a shill or youngfag or not.

>it's about respect for the art.
There is nothing disrespectful about using any medium to tell a good story. Otherwise the logic for that would mean that ANY adaptation from a comic is disrespecting it, even if it was unplanned.

Disrespecting the medium would be not putting in any effort because, "Fuck you, it's gonna be better when I film it as a movie later anyway".

If you have an idea for a show but you still want to get it out with your limited resources, a comic is fine, as long as you still follow the rules of what makes a legible comic. Just like if you were to make an indie game but can't 3D model, pixel art is just fine, too. That doesn't mean you should start shitting out MS paint stick figures. It's not disrespecting pixel art, it's utilizing your limitations.

>Come on everyone! Let's gather our hands, close our eyes, and appreciate comics REAL HARD!
damn near snorted my coffee out my nose

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This for:

lol. But seriously, if comics survived the 1950s they can survive anything.

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It isn't when video games exist.

Same thing goes for video games. Looking at you Kojima and every single indie dev faggot out there making walking sims.

user literally anyone on the other side of this discussion is saying it's bad because those writer expressly do not follow those conventions. And you're response is "but if they do why is it a problem." It wouldn't be then, but they don't don't do that so it is a problem.

Nobody is mad that you want to be rich and famous and have a big IP one day. Nobody knows what gritty book or scritp you wrote. Nobody is condemning you. And if you don't feel they are then stop defending figments of all of our imagination on the chance that they "might" respect comics as a medium while deciding it's a short cut to their tv show or movie dreams.

If you gather in a circle and chant the name of Jack Kirby then comics will become popular once more!

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>but they don't don't do that so it is a problem.
But I'm not responding to other user's. I was specifically responding to OP's image of vague, "Comics should not be used for pitches".

In fact, I quoted OP. What's the problem here?

No, it was Siegel. Keaton was the artist who was supposed to draw it.
thoughtsandramblingsofhardwickebenthow.wordpress.com/man-of-tomorrow-siegel-and-keatons-superman/

I don't see a problem, as long as the story is good and the writer realizes he still has to do his job properly, good art can save a shitty script only for so long. The writer also needs to do his research on comic storytelling and how it differs from movies or novels, although all of these share a lot of similarities. You can do a decent comic with "storyboard" method of just thinking all the visual aspects as "movie scenes" but you will make a brilliant comic when you add unique storytelling tools of comic books into the mix as well.

Are you aware that you didn't respond to OP or quote him?

>still ashamed of the source material
Ah, moviefags.

Video games get the awful writers, artists, AND musicians.

The last twenty years of the industry say otherwise.

Yes. You just pointed out how the synergy between art and writing can rise above both and create something more.

This however is not the standard in the industry. Go ahead and tell me what ongoing comics of the Big Two, or any distributor hits this high mark regularly? This is a rare and wonderful thing that hardly ever happens anymore, and its absence diminishes the industry but does not account for all the other flaws in this industry.

You just described the best case scenario and said "if the story can't hit this mark, it doesnt deserve to be made into a comic" well gee, no wonder comics are dying if THAT is the margin of quality required before a story can become a comic book. Meanwhile the comics that make up the majority of published comics in the west dont even bother trying for that mark.

>The writer also needs to do his research on comic storytelling and how it differs from movies or novels

The point many are making is that they would not do this because the comic wasn't what they wanted to write to begin with. In their deluded minds it's a stop gap until they get to their "movie career"

...What?

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Nope not ashamed

I'm being realistic about the future of this medium and how a misplaced sense of artistic elitism isn't going to do shit for its revival.

So I should want it to continue to not reach for that standard and instead be inundated with shitty writers who could be even tell you what I just said?

No, no I shouldn't. They should fuck off and work a desk job because they aren't writers.

And no it's not about the comic being good but you will not get a good comic from someone who can't tell you why frank wrote some of the best cape shit of all time. Which many cannot. Specifically cartoonfags who think they could write comic if their script it terrible book doesn't get picked up.

That's not the reply I replied to though. So why do I care about that?

>The point many are making is that they would not do this because the comic wasn't what they wanted to write to begin with. In their deluded minds it's a stop gap until they get to their "movie career"

Thats a sign of a shitty writer, which just proves my point. Nothing wrong with a good writer who wants to try a comic format first as long as he realizes that he needs to revise his own script to fit the medium and needs to work with the artist who is equally, or even more important for the project than the writer.

>not ashamed
And yet you shit on them like they had raped you.

A good writer l

Am I getting punked right now?

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The problem with your argument is otherwise shitty writers can pump out ONE good story in their lifetime. Sometimes its the only one they got and they float thru the industry on the popularity of that previous success.

A good writer likely isn't shifting to a medium with the same story because the last medium didn't like their story.

That's not something a good writer does. A good writer tools with their writing until it's seen as good in the medium. They don't just decide comics are an alternative.

>read Akira
>it really reads like a screenplay
>Sup Forums praises manga for this reason

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>Go ahead and pretend like if we all just come together and respects comics REAL HARD then the medium will be saved.
>Come on everyone! Let's gather our hands, close our eyes, and appreciate comics REAL HARD!

disagree with what your saying but holy fuck lol

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oh boo hoo, I was harsh, but I wasn't wrong

Why do you keep selecting different replies. I replied to :.

>Implying I don’t read comics
Sir, that means I DO read comics
That’s how the whole
>Implying I don’t X
Thing works
Also, maybe he might not have the best grasp on how comics work, but that doesn’t mean he can’t learn, and clearly, he knows a thing or two about writing if he had an entire script. That guy could have worked with the dude to explain how stuff like dialogue would have to be tweaked and he could and could not really convey information and what that would mean for constructing the narrative, but he just blew the dude off without even seeing what he had

>It didn’t pan out should not be the basis of anything
Well now we’re just arguing opinion based stuff based on our feelsies, and I guess you’re sort of right there. I say that if he’s gonna do it, don’t half ass it, but whatever

Sure you aren't, Ladderbro.

I feel like you're making the newfag assumption that everyone is the same user.

But then you got instances like Miyazaki being denied Nausicaä movie until he makes a comic version first and that comic version becomes successful. Granted this happened in the most comic-crazy country in the world but still. He originally wanted it to be an animated film. I like the comic version better though, if only because the story turns much more cynical towards the end and Nausicaä turns from a hippie into more of a realist who lies to people to keep their hopes up for the future.

Which... Is me?

Do you not understand how this website works? Typically when a person responds to post, the same user will continue the conversation.

I'm saying putting the burden of making a better product entirely on the new people entering the industry just sets them up to fail. New comic book makers will have some turds and some golden gems. But your qualifications preclude them ever working out those kinks without being booted back out the door.
and it doesnt explain why a good story in combination with a good artist cannot become a good comic book, either an ongoing or not.

Its like saying that people can only qualify for the Olympics if they prove they can do better than the last batch of medal winners first. You have unreasonable high expectations and then claim that people dont meet these expectations because they either A) didnt respect the medium enough or b) because they weren't talented enough

I think you just put the entire medium up on a pedestal and deliberately ignore the mindless dribble that already is approved for publishing because it proves your own point wrong