Why do people say he was ruined?

Why do people say he was ruined?

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>Tries to redeem a literal child murder and someone who took part in genocide, at the end of RotJ he's one of the galaxies best heroes and a true Jedi master
>25 years later he tries to murder his nephew in his sleep because he has visions the guy might grow up to be the next space Hitler
That much of a change without any explanation isn't character development, it's character assassination. They did this to make Rey and the others look good in comparison and then they fucking killed luke
they ruined his character

Because the entire point of the original trilogy was how he keep hopeful even though the empire is near invencible, the jedi are extinct and his own father is the villain instead of the hero he was proud of

Then he lose all hope for much less

it was

You can't try to make an interesting story when all the interesting elements that happened to characters you care about happened off screen or in flashback.

I say TLJ is garbage but still thought they did Luke well. Literally what did people expect from him? TFA flat out states he left everything because he was depressed about his nephew killing all his students.

It was and Rian and Kathleen are hacks

Because they're not like us they're normies they're unaccustomed to beloved characters being treated so poorly. What was a rape to them was just par for the course for us.
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TFA was trash too but it had a lot of hype around it because the franchise was finnaly returning to the big screen.

To be fair if someone told you this kid you know would without a doubt start WWIII, wouldn’t you be scared shitless too?

The stuff with Luke was actually the only parts of the movie I enjoyed. Everything else was such a mess that went nowhere.

Go ask Sup Forums or /swco/

>TFA ends with the heroes blowing up Space ISIS’s mega Death Star
>Literally the first line of the sequel is “The First Order reigns.”

Explain this.

>Because they're not like us they're normies

It's normalfags, get it right or else.

He has a split second of weakness and immediately thinks better of it.

He just chose the worst time for that split second.

I'm not a paranoid faggot so no?

Anyway while we're at it, fuck Obi-Wan and Yoda for not using their stupid ghost powers to talk to Luke and explain that trying to prevent your bad dreams is exactly what causes them to happen, just like his fucking father.

Fuck everything about the sequel trilogy. Sure the prequels suck but at least they don't actively spit on the themes of the OT.

Trips of truth

Because Star Wars is where new ideas don't exist.

> but at least they don't actively spit on the themes of the OT.

Hey let’s not get too crazy.

They don't. They're terribly plotted and they have awful acting but the only stuff they ruin about the OT is shit like Boba Fett being a clone or neckbeard headcanons about the Jedi.

Sure, but how do you do from "I believe space Hitler can be redeemed" to "I must kill the new space Hitler before I try and redeeme him"

>TFA flat out states he left everything because he was depressed about his nephew killing all his students.

I'll never be okay with this. So far, the sequel trilogy just feels like a bleaker rehash of the original trilogy.

I'd say he was, he want from optimistic and hopeful to cynical and bitter over something that was less of a problem than he had previously overcome. Instead of Luke living on to be a galactic hero or a Jedi master, he had to be ruined into some creepy hermit who hates everyone despite it going against the character that was built for the previous 3 films, just so we could engineer the current trilogy to be able to copy as many "big" moments from the original films. I feel there was probably some kind of contempt for the fans of the original movies in TLJ, like they were saying "Fuck you, this is our Star Wars now" on behalf of all the nu-males waiting with agape mouths to buy armfuls of Porg plush toys from the cinema gift store on their way out.

I also think it's incredibly lazy writing for the whole galactic situation to be the same (with the evil empire and good rebels) after ~30 years after the Empire were defeated, set with the majority of old characters doing exactly what they were in the original films. Like after the Empire was defeated, Han really just had nothing better to do than to go back to a life of smuggling? He didn't even, say, earn a place in the galactic government that should have formed? Or have founded his own trading company? No, he's just back to smuggling because the audience knows he's a smuggler. Great.

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The explanations behind where we find his character are unconvincing, and his death -- even if prefaced by a major feat with the Force -- feels like an overly convenient and contrived way of writing Luke into being Obi-Wan/Yoda 2.0, doubly so when it's considered how his failures with Kylo mirror their failure with Anakin.

I didn't want a perfect Luke. I didn't even want Luke to be the star of the show (which is something TLJ actually went out of its way to do in its last act). But I wanted something more dynamic and true to the character than what we got. Hamill gives a great performance (his wink to Threepio manages to be both a little heartwarming and comical) but otherwise it all just feels like a big waste.

New trilogy blows. Canon ended after TLJ. Everything else is Disney’s Fanon. Even the Prequels were better than the NT.

I find it funny when people shat on me for pointing out the conflict was still the same when the first TFA trailer dropped.

>”You can’t just expect major conflicts to be over in 30 years! Technology doesn’t advance that much in 30 years!”

And now everyone is finally catching on.

Boba Fett being a clone kinda makes sense. We never really got anything like a background for the most feared bounty hunter in the films. Why not make him a clone of the previous most feared bounty hunter?

>Canon ended after TLJ
You mean ROTJ right?

>Luke is endlessly steadfast and optimistic for 3 movies
>Constantly tries to redeem Vader because he senses just the tiniest little bit of good in him despite the fact Vader blew up his sister's planet and genocided the Jedi

>Ben has a split-second of naughty thoughts in his sleep
>"TIME FOR JACK TO LET 'ER RIP!"

If you see nothing wrong with this you're a retard.

Canon ended after A New Hope. Prequels, sequels, all of it's fan fiction.
Luke blows up Death Star, Vader careens into space, the end.

What was there to smuggle? I mean the Hutts whom he was smuggling for aren’t in power anymore. The Empire which banned the substance he smuggled is no longer around. Everyone & their mother probably already knows the Millenium Falcon, so how did he not get shot as soon he docked? Or imprisoned for smuggling?

I’m confused about the titles. ROTJ/TLJ too similar in names.

You know he doesn't actually try to kill Ben. He just ignites his lightsaber. Not to attack him, but the vision startled him so it put him on the defense. Plus, while he tried to redeem his dad, he also did attack Vader with said lightsaber.

Sequels acting is even worse mostly because of Daisy

>”You can’t just expect major conflicts to be over in 30 years! Technology doesn’t advance that much in 30 years!”
>WW1 was over in less than 10 years
>WW2 was over in less than 10 years
>Went from shitty bolt action rifles to semi-automatic and fully automatic rifles between WW1 and WW2
>Went from shitty old Apple computers in 1970's to fucking smartphones, the internet, home computers, etc. in 2000's

>It's okay nephew, I wasn't planning on murdering you, I was just igniting my weapon over you in self-defense
This movie is retarded and every explanation for it is even more so. And he only attacked Vader after Vader had repeatedly egged him on at his most emotionally vulnerable after hearing his friends are going to die and that Vader would try and corrupt his sister, Luke's patience up to that point was astounding and even at his most rage-filled he doesn't actually make a killing blow.

Jedi don't fucking ignite their sabers because they got "startled" you dick.

Hey, I just want to know; was anyone asking for a Han Solo movie? He’s cool and all but really, a solo movie(pun intended)?

Where’s my Kenobi movie staring Ewan McGregor?

Yeah they do. Anakin did in ROTS when Sheev told him he was a Sith.

>Hey, I just want to know; was anyone asking for a Han Solo movie?
No, but Disney wants that normie money badly.

This, why do people like her? Every time I see her godawful "acting" face I just want to smack her.

>Prequels

It's just so lazy, they've had 2 movies now to explain it but they can't even be bothered to do that. So after the Empire was destroyed, including the Death Star and its leaders, there is just even more and even eviler parts of the Empire waiting to spring into action? It's just so retarded.

Also a lot can change in 30 years, it's actually a pretty long time, just look at how far mobile phones alone have come for technology, and how much the world has changed 30 years after the start of either world war.

Some kind of space tentacle-balls. Who would want them and why? Why would they even be illegal? Who cares as long as it leads to an action scene?

Also that reminds me, I'm so tired of seeing the Millenium Falcon, I get it, it's cool and iconic and they wouldn't want to pass up using it, but they really couldn't design a new iconic space-ship for the new movies? I guess not with the retarded new ships introduced in TLJ like those bombers (?) or those speeder things that didn't even seem to have any weapons. It just makes the writing so contrived for the protagonists to stumble across the same spaceship 30 years later, on a planet we haven't seen or heard of before and then to meet all the old gang in it. I don't know, I just think it would be weird for a bunch of strangers to turn up to my house in a car I had 30 years ago looking for me, which is basically what happened to Luke.

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I will never not be mad about what they did to him.
Which is odd as I found his death scene to be the most kino part of the new movies, just the whole double suns and classic music when he slowly just disappears, it was just a beautiful and well done shot.

I think both are conceptually stupid ideas.

>Prequels were better

Faggot I will beat you with a stick.

Why the fuck hasn't it been explained how the rebel alliance went from a coalition of systems with their own fleet to a bunch of soyboys with some x-wings

>hurr read the book

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We were monkeys with sticks.

Eventually, you reach a point where its harder and harder to make bigger sticks.

Do you not want to see a Mad Max-esque Kenobi film?

Except in the EU. And prequels.

>hurr read the books :^)
seriously this shit is pathetic, the Resistance in the new trilogy is smaller than the rag tag rebel fleet they assembled in Return of the Jedi and by the end of TLJ they're only big enough to fill up the Millenium Falcon against a force that is stated to be close to conquering the whole galaxy. How can we expect these fucks to be able to be a serious threat to the First Order?

Explain how her acting is flawed, then.

Try it, cuck.

Obi Wan does when Anakin jumps down into the elevator in III

Not really. Kenobi is a Jedi laying low watching over Luke. I don't really want to see conflicts contrived just to see Obi-Wan again. I've had enough prequels and sequels and interquels. Sometimes less is more.

>prequels

>Not to attack him, but the vision startled him so it put him on the defense.

Maybe I need to rewatch that scene, but I thought he ignited it because he briefly thought it would be best to kill Ben before he became too powerful.

Well considering they had the First Order conquer the galaxy off screen I'm sure the Resistance is going to rebuild off screen as well, show don't tell is completely foreign to hollyjew these days

You take that lie back cunt. The new stuff is bad, but to even compare it to that prequel shit is a travesty.

It's like you have Lucas stockholm syndrome.

THey are better, they are MUCH BETTER

Even fucking twillight is better than the complete piece of shit fanfiction tier that is Disney sequels with they literal mary sue protagonist, literal emo rival, literal carbon copy of the previous main villain

Sequels look like parody.

Because they don't get that anyone can be tempted by the dark side. That's kind of it's whole deal.

>oh shit, I better move the goalposts

More like you have Disney stockholm syndrome.

I wish I could slam your dick in a car door.

>Getting this upset over being told that something you like is shit
Nu-Star Wars "fans", everybody.

>muh Disney shill boogeyman

Don't you have an MCU thread to shitpost in?

The Prequels aren’t canon

Fuck you. Not even him, but the prequels are way better than this garbage.

Yes they are

Yeah the whole Disney ST is just filled with lazy writing and bad directors who have to follow a complete hack who’d rather push an agenda than tell a good story

This
and I was not terribly impressed by the whole force-hologram thing at the end. It felt like he just wanted to have it both ways- keep his sister alive, but still be a bitter angry hermit drinking green milk
He could have gone with Rey and actually picked a damn side. He could have raised his X-wing from the water in a nice homage scene to Yoda doing the exact same thing.
And had his force-hologram been only 2 minutes later to arrive, it would not have been helpful because troops would already be in the rebel base. A hologram can only distract armed troops for so long before they fuck off and go back to searching for the rebels.

It all smacked of trying to get rid of Luke so that the new trilogy could focus on the new characters only. Because, to quote Rian "Luke would have been a distraction". You heard that right, Rian thinks Luke Skywalker is a distraction in a Star Wars film.

I'm not even angry that he's dead, they could have killed him off at the beginning of the next film and it would have been just fine. But barely giving him even half of one film to Luke? thats just... harsh. And Mark Hamill deserved better. Poor guy went thru the 5 stages of grief when he found out they killed Luke. Been waiting nearly 30 years for this movie and his character gets killed off as soon as it is convenient. Thats fucked up

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>being this mad
Looks like I touched a nerve.

>EU
always has been dubiously canon even before Disney bought the rights and made them officially not-canon. Its hard for all the book content to be canon if the movies reference exactly zero original content or ideas from the EU
>Prequels
fucking when do Jedi ignite their lightsaber because they were "startled"? Cite your source

I like her legs, but that's about it. I don't think anyone really "likes" her.

We didn't need any sequels (or the prequels for that matter) to begin with.

This entire post is why SWfags deserve to be gassed
>man these 40 year later sequels that don't involve any of the original creative team (despite him doing shit movies 25 years later too) suck! MUH CHILDHOOD MUH FRANCHISE
I'm a huge comic book and superhero fan, so I just don't watch the adaptations, because I know they'll be hatchetjobs, SWfags can't even help themselves.

By being a hack writer like Rian Johnson. That's how.

IF he had been given those visions and thought that he was enough to prevent ben's turn to the dark side and failed without trying to kill him at all then the guilt of his failure in that regard would still push him to isolate himself. Being the legend Luke Skywalker not being enough would make him grow to be more cynical of his place in the universe and would justify his behavior played out from when he met Rey.

I never watched star wars as a kid. I was a star trek nerd, that was my bag. Star Wars were always a trilogy of very good movies, but nothing more to me.
The sequel movies seem like they were written more to push a profit margin than to tell a story or even to put on an entertaining display of action. Its all a clusterfuck

but please tell me more about how I worship at the altar of Star Wars. Make up some more strawman arguments for you to take down, its so fun to watch you get wound up over something that never appeared in my post.

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there are some people that actually think like this

Why are you so retarded? Your mama drinked too much while pregnant? Star wars is not a complicated story, making a sequel consistency to the story is not rocket sciency

Admiting that you're a fucking casual on SW and movies in general only make you look even more foolish by judging other people opinions on the subject

Is there a way we can make...not sticks?

technology can't evolve forever you know, it will stagnate eventally even if take 100 or a milliion years

I hope you get ass cancer.

You just seemed mad in your post is all. Mad enough to follow director interviews and really get into the process of how it was made. I'm just saying get out, stop having a stake in the game.

>REEEEEEE WHY DON'T YOU CARE ABOUT MUH SPACE KNIGHTS AS MUCH AS I DO

I don’t understand how anyone can give a shit about the ST. Nothing in it makes a lick of fucking sense, it’s clear they’re just throwing shit at the wall, and Rey is a Mary Sue. How the fuck are they going to beat the FO? How the fuck did the FO become more powerful than the Empire despite being incredibly incompetent in the films?

>I got no arguments but I will keep defending those shitty movies anyway!
Disney bitch

Nah. The director interview was posted on Sup Forums months ago as an OP. kinda hard to miss the OP of that thread going straight up nuclear about it.

But unironically, I agree. Star Wars fans have to admit that the entire Star Wars franchise was merely 'pretty good' and was elevated by the fan theorizing into 'great' in their own heads. But since none of that fan theorizing ever makes it into the movies, they all get disappointed by the movies. The movies always benefited from rampant fan speculation filling in gaps in the story/background...but none of it was ever made canon.

Doesnt mean the movies can't do better. And I think the way they shuffled Luke off the screen as fast as possible was just plain disrespectful to Mark Hamill as an actor, who himself admitted that he has been looking forward to playing Luke again for a long time.

Your substitute father figure telling you he's your religon's ultimate enemy and the wanted mastermind behind everything bad in the galaxy is a far fucking degree up from "startling".

if they do make a Kenobi solo movie its just going to be him fighting Darth Maul again

>What was there to smuggle?
Plenty, The Hutts still have some sway and there is still the entire Corporate Sector, which is essentially the AnCap Zone.
I actually wanted to see more of that in the sequel trilogy.

>literally telling you not to see the movie, don't waste your time
>disney bitch
Room temperature IQ

>people still shitting on the prequels but praise the sequels
>mfw both are the same level of shit

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People didn't hated the movie because the twists didn't fill their theories, in fact fans hate when is so easy to predict the plot.

People hate how shitty the "twists" were, making an entire mistery just to reveal "is fucking nothing" is lazy wirtting.

The prequels were a classic case of a lot of neat little Ideas badly executed and obscured by bad ideas. The strength of it is shown when people are allowed to dust off the nonsense, the orginal Clone Wars cartoon for example.
The new stuff doesn't have a single original idea in its head.

>>literally telling you not to see the movie, don't waste your time
>making shit up to save your face
The only people you told people to do is stopping sharing negative opinions over something they already watched, nice try though

Star Trek has had it much worse than Star Wars.

>People hate how shitty the "twists" were, making an entire mistery just to reveal "is fucking nothing" is lazy wirtting.

Fucking this. It’s like Johnson went on the Internet to research every fan theiry out there just so he can debunk them and in the end all we got was a bland movie.

Some of the twists don’t make any narrative sense too. Rey’s mysterious past is a major plot point if TFA but it turns out to be nothing in TLJ? What about her stating that she doesn’t know how she flew the Falcon? The visions from Anakin’s lightsaber? It’s all just a coincidence?

Indeed, but at least the spiral was a slow one starting with Voyager merely having meh episodes semi regularly, to having "okay this is boring" episodes pretty regularly towards the end. Then Enterprise came along and hammered some more nails into that coffin by being at best "okay" to more commonly "this is kind of dumb". Enterprise wallowed in the 'lesson of the day' type of stories that made it feel like a saturday morning kids cartoon. And the acting was painful to watch in Enterprise
The new Abrams movies are okay to pretty good... except we were promised a new timeline not merely STOS movies- the fanfictioning. Perfectly fine for mindless popcorn movies, but meh as far as actually taking the whole new timeline thing in a direction that isnt predictable and therefore boring.
And I'm a poorfag so I havent bought the privilege to see the new Discovery series. I heard it seems like its written by science fiction writers who just never 'got' Star Trek's appeal as a series. And that Klingons are now a reptilian species...so thats weird

At least Star Trek came in slowly for a comfortable landing. Star Wars seems set to crash and burn

Reminder that the prequels are the best films in the Star Wars saga heavily influenced by Wagner operas,Michael Snow, Howard Hawks and Kurosawa films
Patrician Star Wars ranking:
AotC>RotS>TPM=ANH>ESB>RotJ>>TFA>TLJ>RO