>Jackson interpreted the "Fire of Orthanc" as Saruman utilizing his deep (and corrupting) knowledge of the dark arts to invent an early form of gunpowder, further developing the link between industrialization and destruction illustrated throughout the film by Saruman's descent into darkness as he turns his back on the natural world
>Bakshi interpreted the "Fire of Orthanc" as Saruman standing on his roof shooting lasers halfway across the planet with his magic wand
Other urls found in this thread:
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
twitter.com
Bakshi was more accurate as Tolkien based it around pre-gunpowder northern myths where people shooting bolts of lightning
Jackson just wanted to shove his 'guns and machines are bad' message down everyone's throats
Tolkien's "Blasting Fire" is absolutely inspired by gunpowder, if anything Jackson's films toned down Tolkien's anti-technology and anti-guns message. Tolkien saw firearms and the ability to deal death from afar by pressing to button as the death of chivalry and honor in combat.
Stop posting with authority when you're clueless, this isn't Sup Forums.
>turns his back on the natural world
Considering that he was Aule's guy wasn't it odd for him to befriend the ents in the first place?
I don't think the sides were really that clearly defined. The old world folks just hung out with the other old world folks unless they were on team evil.
>chivalry and honor in combat
there is literally no such thing
God i love that poster
The other is almost as good
Until you can never unsee the ladders
The Helm's Deep part of this movie was putrid shit.
I liked the rest though. Balrog was cool.
>Bakshi LotR thread
That makes sense. And I guess they would want to send out guys that seemed impartial to any one race on Middle Earth.
This. Tolkien's writings are wonderful but they're full of "machines and technology bring out the worst in mankind. Nature and reverence thereof bring out the best"
I like the guy, but he had good reason to hate on tech. He survived WW1 for the Brits, and so faced chemical warfare like mustard gas which at the time was seen as the pinnacle of technology and chemistry.
Tolkien fought in the trenches of WW1. Technological advances made it the bloodiest war in human history up to that point. Millions upon millions of shells and poison gas slaughtered men literally by the hundreds if not thousands each day. If there was anyone who would have an opinion of the horrors and barbarism of war aided by ever increasing tech advancements, it'd be J.R.R. Tolkien
>call it "The Lord of the Rings"
>only include the first two books
What did they mean by this?
Only like 8 more ladders, and they'll make it!
It's better than the actual movie
Apparently John Boorman was set to do LotR and it falling apart was what led to this piece of insanity.
>That image
>those ladders
>leading to nowhere
What they gonna do when they climb that shit? Scale the wall?
Sorry lads, only the second best of animated Tolkien
I'll never forget listening to the commentary for this movie and the director mentioning that sometimes people ask him what it was like to direct a scene where his daughter is raped, and he just casually says that she was quite fine with it.
I remember making a post on Sup Forums jokingly wishing Glen Yarbrough would drop dead. Then he died the next day. I still feel awful.
Jackson wins, I'm afraid. If only Rankin-Bass Witch King didn't have a campy Skeletor voice
This scene is kino though
youtube.com
Yarborough gets too much hate. Arthur Rankin Jr. should get more of the blame because he wrote all the original lyrics
The animation on the Rankin Bass one looks so good, but they really blew it on the voice there. I sounds like they're beheading Starscream.
The songs in The Hobbit are all pretty good, they just play "Greatest Adventure" way too many times for a 90 minutes film. It's like the only way they could think to punctuate scenes and you get sick of it by the end of the film. It's a good song for what it is, but jeez.
The songs in Return of the King were all garbage. "Where There's a Whip" is funny, sure, and catchy, but so out of place, just like all the other songs in that film. The songs in The Hobbit worked because they were adapted from the lyrics Tolkien wrote and were implemented in some clever ways to fit the mood of the story ("Goblin Town" is done in a way that's very spooky). Return of the King's songs just feel like Disney song and dance musical numbers and stick out badly for it.
It's not quite that simple. He has a dim view of magic as a shortcut around real work and any technology that would amount to the same thing. Technology or machines or magic themselves are not the problem; looking for an easy way out of hard work is.
>"Where There's a Whip" is funny, sure, and catchy, but so out of place,
>Orcs
>Not wanting to go to war today
>Requiring the Lord of the Lash to say nay nay nay
There are no such things as pacifist orcs.
The Boorman LoTR script is fucking nuts. There's a summary floating around, give it a read.
Was the Boorman script the one that had Sean Connery in mind to play Gandalf?
>"Ish it shecret? Ish it shafe?"
It's not that the Orcs are pacifists, it's that they're verminous bullies who prefer to pick on people who can't fight back, not actually take up arms and fight against an enemy that will actually, y'know, fight.
I don't know. What I do know is that it has Gimli being beaten to open the gates of Moria, and Frodo having sex with Galadriel.
i REALLY wanna read this now
But Goblins, who are just nigger orcs, rallied an army after they heard Smaug was dead and dove right into a current battle of three armies with the belief they could legit win.
Connery was originally offered Gandalf for the Jackson film. The movie was still pretty low budget and desperately needed a star so he was offered points on the back end. He read the script and found it too confusing so he passed. LotR was one of the biggest successes of its era and he may have passed on the biggest payday in Hollywood history.
Connery vowed not to make the mistake twice so when League of Extraordinary Gentlemen came his way he accepted despite finding the script confusing. It was a massive bomb and a critical disaster. Sean Connery said fuck it and retired from acting shortly after.
That's like a Greenskins gag from WhFB
>Gandalf leads Gimli through a primitive rebirthing ritual, making him dig a hole and crawl into it, covering him with a cloak and violently beating and verbally abusing him, until he springs forth with recovered memories of his forgotten ancestral language and speaks the Dwarvish words needed to open the doors
>Elves are nigger Wizards
>Men are nigger Elves
>Orcs are nigger Men
>Goblins are nigger Orcs
Are there nigger Goblins? Does it get that bad?
sounds like absolute trash.
that's Boorman for ya
Goblins are small orcs, but neither is elf or man, just as man is not elf and elf is not man.
>Are there nigger Goblins? Does it get that bad?
Why yes actually, they're called The Mewlips:
youtube.com
They reside in the swamps and marshes within abandoned dark damp places, finding lone travelers and stealing all they have as well as eating them.
Unorganized, naked, cannibalistic savage goblins pretty much.
what about da Dwarves
>Tolkien's anti-technology and anti-guns message
Look up interviews with the dude. He was FAR right. Not anti-gun AT ALL.
>he was far right
I swear to God if I was in front of you I would deck your face in
The dude was a Centrist and Libertarian (not leftist libs don't get it twisted)
He believed guns were a soulless and undignified form of weaponry because of the relative ease and great destruction they have the capabilities of, where it must have been the work of the Dark Arts. Besides that, he wasn't "anti-gun" or "pro-gun", but knew all well the temptation for going off into darkness (being cruel/evil), when retaining such power.
He was a spiritual man too. He studied several major religions to construct his universe, ones that hold references within his works.
Why are so many people in this thread talking out of their ass
>He was FAR right.
Not at all. He was an anti-imperialist, anti-industrial Catholic conservative
Glorified robots made out of stone by a demi-god of smithing.
>Conservative
Ah right, I forgot about that, so lemme re-phrase my statement here:
Libertarian back then is not the same Libertarian as of now, because such things as homosexuality and the like were not commonplace back then, even during the era of the Great War. I agree with that user, he was a Conservative, but being Libertarian as well (when taking into account that era's norms).
But he did believe you are entitled to whichever faith you pursue, hence his interest towards pagan culture and absorbing it into his universe.
Anti-Imperialist definitely goes in with Libertarian as well
You are every fucking thing wrong with political discourse right now. i seriously hope you die.
He's an American who thinks conservative = pro-gun because of their own cultural clusterfuck of ideologies.
He described himself as an unconstitutional monarchist/philosophical anarchist.
Dude, he's a self declared anarchist.
It's also a product of British culture at the time. The industrialization of England saw massive migration from the countryside into the cities and their factories. There was a popular belief at the time that industrialism created the miserable wash of humanity as opposed to merely attracting the poor to easier, higher paying jobs. You see a lot of these portrayals of the idyllic countryside and a desire to return to a simplistic agrarian paradise from the late 1700's onward.
Tolkien's experience in WWI certainly shaped his philosophy, but there's a wider cultural lens to it than just that.
>But the special horror of the present world is that the whole damned thing is in one bag. There is nowhere to fly to. Even the unlucky little Samoyedes, I suspect, have tinned food and the village loudspeaker telling Stalin’s bed-time stories about Democracy and the wicked Fascists who eat babies and steal sledge-dogs. There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
>There is, after all, something degrading about deferring to a politician, or going through the silly charade of pretending that “public service” is a particularly honorable occupation, or being forced to choose which band of brigands, mediocrities, wealthy lawyers, and (God spare us) idealists will control our destinies for the next few years.
Fucc off
THIS IS A DECENT ANIMATED TOLKIEN THREAD
STOP RUINING IT WITH POLITICS SLAP FIGHTING YOU FUCKTARDS
I love his LotR but it's embarrassing how bad Jackson got outclassed on the Hobbit
>Why yes actually, they're called The Mewlips:
Thanks, chum. I was going to suggest Barrow-Wights were nigger Goblins since they're basically ethereal, soulless husks and about as low as one can get. But I guess Barrow-Wights are nigger Mewlips.
several actors passed on that deal, iirc. Russell Crowe being most notable. I think he was offered 10% of the profits instead of an upfront paycheck but turned it down because he was still an unknown who needed money to eat.
Created way too early, then left to brew in the dirt for a few ages.
>what about da Dwarves
Dwarves are nigger Barrow-Wights. You can't get lower than that.
It really couldn't be anyone but McKellen. I know it's a given but it's still worth mentioning how great he is. He captured the power hidden in a wanderer's robes but also warmth and the humor and the quickness to anger. Really elevated it from what it very easily could have been which is a stock one dimensional D&D art wizard.
I think Patrick Stewart, Patrick McGoohan, and fucking David Bowie were all offered the part, and they all would've been great
Pretty sure Bowie was offered Elrond but it could have been both
Jackson wanted him for Gandalf and Bowie wanted Elrond instead
Thanks for posting it, great performance, never heard it being sung before
Dunno if Bowie would be better but I would call Hugo Weaving on of the few real miscasts. He has a great voice and screen presence but it's bizarre that the elves are portrayed relatively faithfully to the novels as ageless and flawless and beautiful and androgynous and then we have this ugly man-hating fuck.
I don't like the JRR books at all but I love the movies and find the lore fascinating.
>he may have passed on the biggest payday in Hollywood history.
Eh, they would have jewed him out of the box office money with Hollywood accounting anyway.
Elrond's not a complete elf tho.
>Sean Connery said fuck it and retired from acting shortly after.
I think you've missed out on an important detail, user.
Tolkien can't even really be read in the context of today's politics, that's like saying "oh yeah George Washington would've voted for X"--meaningless bullshit.
Tolkien was a naturalist anti-Enlightenment libertarian, which made total sense given that he'd grown up with the Great War that caused a massive number of people to renounce modernism. Make your understanding of humanities less clickbaity.
So, what, he thought that being lawless peasant dirt farmers was better for the masses?
pretty much
he basically spells it out with the Scouring of the Shire
To be fair, he is half-elven.
I would assume he thinks what he said
Well fuck it. He can be a good writer, but frankly I don't see how he can agree with that in the real world. We as a species don't need to be in the place again where everyone but the top 2% of human beings are living and endless horrid struggle to fight off disease and starvation.
That civil servants are trash, people who support their governments are trash, and we should all be eternally struggling farmers. K.
>how do we stop this horror
>better elect 2% of the population to help the rest of the 98%
Yeah, no. This is basic power distribution, try to stop it and you wind up with horrors worse than the things you can imagine now.
If he had his way modern technology would still be in the "lightbulb" phase, and all the people with air-conditioning and indoor plumbing would be in wood cabins with barely so much as a latern so as to not freeze to death in the winter.
>piece of kino
FTFY
>There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit!
What a psychopath.
For the most part tbey are, have you seen the average bureaucrat?
as you should.
He didn't say "killing people"
And the people who help you at the bank? Scum of the earth, right? Folks behind the counter at thr welfare office earning a paycheck for their families? The guys who pick your trash up from the curb every week? Or eho deliver your mail?
Tolkien's Britain can't be understood without understanding the history of the Tories and Whigs. Speaking generally
The Tories were a group of post-cavalier rural agrarian landowners who were traditionalist, pro-monarchy/aristocracy, and either High Church Anglican or Catholic.
Their opponents, the Whigs, were typically urban, liberal (classical, i.e. capitalist), pro-parliament, nationalist, and some variation of low church protestant.
The US developed in an entirely different way (no historical movement to spring from, no monarchy, no Anglican church or aristocratic Catholics, slavery being the huge defining political question).
You really are just human cancer
Yeah, just destroying their places of work, ending their jobs. But, hey, those are just nobodies, I suppose...
Ugh, what a fucking commie fag.
Did it work?
And we should all be glad it happened, both for LotR and Excalibur.
I mean... he was already the Goblin King.
Yeah, I should support destroying factories and shunning public servants who work hard to keep a decent standard of living for others.
>help me at the bank
Havent seen a teller in almost a decade.
>behind the counter at the welfare office
If they cared they would be getting a real job and donate to charity instead of fat off needy people
>pick up my trash
The people who actively destroy vast swathes of land for garbage because people dont know how to recycle and compost
>deliver mail
The same people who were so corrupt they didnt even have enough to pay pensions?
All garbage people.
>There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal
this is the coolest thing i've heard about Tolkien
No one cares you fucking retard. I 'm not even reading the content of your posts. The point is that they don't belong in a thread about animated adaptations of Tolkien's works.
And yet you benefit from all of them and more. You are human scum, sucking life from others and living in comfort. Killing yourself would be a net gain for this planet, of only we could forgo the momey spent to toss you into the sea.
It would be wonderful if mods actually took care of the cancer killing this thread before 3 hours after the thread is dead.
I think it's because rather than try to make The Hobbit, he tried to make Lord of the Rings: Episodes 1-3, Also Featuring The Hobbit.
>Take away their right to slave wages.
>The people who actively destroy vast swathes of land for garbage because people dont know how to recycle and compost
You mean yourself? Because I am 100% sure you create more garbage than the average person.
And what else will they do? Be military slaves like Tolkien and get paid a retirement check just for taking up everyone else's air every morning?