If Superman’s powers are negated by magic, such that it affects him the way it affects other...

If Superman’s powers are negated by magic, such that it affects him the way it affects other, non-powered people and if Thor is using his full strength in the attack, how did this not, at the very least, break every bone in big blue’s arm?

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marvel powerlevels some pussy shit

He still has super strength, but other than that just PIS.

Because "muh kryptonian physiology means he's super durable all the time no matter what"

I belive only his invulnerability is negated by magic attacks.

So his super strength and endurance still work unless a wizard is using a weakness spell specifically negating his other powers.

Mjolnir's 'power' is to hit really hard. Supes can tank hard hits.

If the spell was explicitly to break arms, it would've broken his arm.

Superman's powers aren't negated by magic.
He just has no special protections to it is the meme.
Thor's Hammer isn't "everything I smash breaks its bones" it just hits really hard. Superman can take hard hits.

>Another power level thread
Why is this the only thing on Sup Forums lately?

He's questioning how Supes's powers interact with magic, which is a fairly reasonable question to ask.

Have you considered you're just a jackass?

Honestly the best thing about this page is that it implies Clark watched and enjoyed Spinal Tap enough to make a reference in the middle of a fight with an extradimensional demigod.

Calm down, autist. It's a fair observation given the thread traffic. Anyway it's not hard to grasp; Superman has no natural defense against magic, but he's still durable given his Kryptonian physiology

Mouseboys can't compare to real American superheroes.

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Mjolnir magic was clearly affected by the sick Spinal Tap reference

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Because Marvel is weak as shit.

I think it’s more reasonable to conclude that you suck cocks OP

it comes down to the fact that Thor is not using magic. He's using brute force.

basically this:

So what would happen if I cast Mudo or Hama on Superman?

There would be a 40% chance of him instantly dying.

Any insta death spell would be effective depending on how said spell works.

>ctrl+f "tactile telekinesis"
>0 hits
Pff

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>Superman's powers are negated by magic

Where did you get this? Superman is vulnerable to magic. It can harm him because he's still a non magical mortal. It doesn't mean that any magic user can defeat him. Batman's weakness is repeatedly being punched in the face but that doesn't mean that every person with the ability to do it can defeat him

His powers aren’t negated by magic. It’s not kryptonite or a red sun.

He just has no special resistance to it. Like, you cut him with a sword that can cut anything. He’s gonna get cut. He’s not going to get “more cut” from it.

Shoot a fireball at him. It’s still just fire, as it were. He’s not especially resistant to magic, so he has to deal with it, but he’s still fuckoff durable. By comparison, Billy Batson would likely resist the fireball on the basis of him being resistant to magic, so Billy’s durability never comes into play in the first place.

Mjolnir is a powerful magic weapon, yes. But Thor is still just swinging it really hard.

*Smirk*
Time to fuck with Batman, and clean out Gotham.

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A well placed lorn bolt would do the trick.

Superman’s been a heavy metal fan for awhile.

>negated by magic
Wrong. He’s vulnerable to magic, not weak to it. There’s a world of difference.

1. Superman is vulnerable to magic the same way any not magical user is vulnerable to magic.

2. In the very same crossover it is shown that DC magic >>>>>>Marvel magic.

Read more comics OP. The dials go up to eleven for DC.

think magic in terms of Dungeon and Dragons.
Superman is a high level character and every king of energy resistance and damage reductions but without spell resistance...so your evocation spells will not do shit to him, you need to go with illusion, enchantment, necromancy, etc

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Simple. Marvel's magic is shit.

Believe it or not, Busiek received death threats for this fight...

Yeah, that doesn't quite work since you can see the lightning radiating on the hammer.

Oh, I believe it.

There's a sequence in First Thunder about this.

Superman gets hit by a magic blast that drops him and covers him in crystal that he can't easily break. Captain Marvel tanks the same blast and, because he's explicitly resistant to magic, it just slides off him.

He's worthy of wielding mjolnir so combined with his superhuman strength he was able to simply hold it up as if it was a regular hammer

Clark is not only the Man of Steel, he's a Man of METAL.

He's explicitly unworthy.

He just lifted it that once because the restrictions had been lifted.

Superman is vulnerable to spell effects not just anything magic.

People still tweet at him about it too

Based Busiek has it right. It’s a vulnerability not a weakness.

>and if Thor is using his full strength
He wasn't, he says so to Aqualame at the end, neither did he use his other powers, teleportation, warriors madness, lightning etc

>He's questioning how Supes's powers interact with magic, which is a fairly reasonable question to ask.

No he's operating under the assumption that Superman is affected by magic like it's Kryptonite, which is false. Superman just has no powers that protect from magic. Thor's hammer has no real magical ability other than "only lifted by those worthy, and can call lightning and fly" it doesn't have a "cripples bastards" enchantment, it just does that part because it's a big fucking hammer.

If Superman is facing a magician with a hammer that calls lighting, he can still take a hit from the lightning and the hammer and be okay, if Captain Marvel gets hit he's definitely okay. If Superman was hit by a hammer with a spell specifically designed to cripple people he wouldn't be walking away. Captain Marvel would.

Superman isn't weakened by magic, he just has no defense to it.
Clear it up OP?

He's still alive isn't he

Of course, he was writing Astro City recently.

"vulnerable to magic" means a magical sword will cut superman with the merest pressure just like it would a normal human.

"vulnerable to magic" should mean a magical hammer swung at supes with even mere human strength would break his arm, let alone when swung by a metahuman.

JLA vs Avengers simply got this wrong.

But the good news is, it was *deliberately* wrong so that we'd still be having this conversation decades later. Busiek deliberately wrote a canonical failure of a scene.

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The is enchanted to cut anything, Thor's hammer is enchanted to be disguised as a stick.

Because Superman isn't negated by magic, he just has zero defense against it. Beaides, one could argue Mjolnirs magic has nothing to do with offensive power, only the whole "if he be worthy, he becomes Thor" bit. Taking a blow from Mjolnir in that case boils it all down to how hard Thor can hit Superman, and it's negligible at best

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>Vulnerable to magic should mean what I want it to mean! Here, have an image that doesn't prove my point at all, that's evidence that Busiek got it wrong because he didn't pay attention to how I think it should be done!

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No you simpering retarded casual. Thor’s hammer isn’t enchanted to break bones with every blow otherwise surprise surprise it would have broken th bones of anyone he ever fought.

Now fuck off.

>"vulnerable to magic" means a magical sword will cut superman with the merest pressure just like it would a normal human.
Yes when said sword has an enchantment to cut through anything, it does indeed affect him.
>"vulnerable to magic" should mean a magical hammer swung at supes with even mere human strength would break his arm, let alone when swung by a metahuman.
Is the hammer enchanted to inflict more damage than a non-lighting rod hammer?

Because Superman is also worthy

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No you moron

About that

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He’s as weak against magic as, say, Batman; not especially vulnerable. For example, a spell that might turn Bats into a dog won’t make Supes bleed from all his orifices and his head explode, it’ll just turn him into a dog. A very strong dog.

Superman will never ever prove Bruce Wrong about his world being nothing but darkness since he still fights luthor and countless mass murdering monsters on the daily.

mfw I sold my JLA/Avengers trades for dirt cheap

Bullshit. If you have the same mindset as Bruce, then just like him, you are unfit to be a father or a leader.

It's not about "proving wrong" the word indeed has darkness in it. It just about people like Bruce and Clark making it better.

Bullshit: The Superhero.

His powers aren't negated by magic, it's just that some magic affects him like it would any normal person.

Couldn't this just be since he's worthy to wield Mjolnir?

See

So even worthy people can only lift Mjolnir OCCASIONALLY?

As I have always said, the enchantment is bullshit

No, Thor means that unworthy people can lift Mjolnir when the stakes are high enough.

Nah, at around the time this was written, Mjonir was essentially an Uru-metal weapon that'd been enchanted to only be wieldable by a few select people, and to be able to transform to a stick. Uru metal is borderline indestructible, and is good at *channeling* magic, but beyond that it is for all intents and purposes just a really really durable hammer, which Superman should still be able to tank.

I remember when Thor was worthy again during Hickman Avengers.

More likely, the Marvel/DC universe merge made Superman worthy to the Marvel universe definition but in the end when they split Supes wasn't a native of that universe so was no longer worthy or even in existence and Thor, being Thor just made shit up to explain it.

Because honestly, is a space horse more worthy than Superman?

Are you talking shit about Beta Ray Bill, asshole?

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Because Superman isn't "weak" to magic. He just doesn't have a resistance to it. However, he can still resist the effects or "outcome" of magic if it attempts to try to harm him in a non-magical way. Basically to hurt Superman with magic, you have to be very specific. You have to cast a spells that literally says "break all of Superman's bones", not "hit Superman really hard", and assume that it will break his bones. They explain this in the comics.

>As I have always said, the enchantment is bullshit

All the enchantment really does is show that the hammer isn't even incredibly strong or durable, the only thing keeping it "infinitely heavy" to almost every person on earth is the fact that Odin says they're not allowed to pick it up. Beyond that it's just space rocks that channel lighting and can fly.

Mjolnir itself only weighs 42 pounds.

>Godhunter
One of the most hardcore comics I've ever read
BRB stole Galactus' herald's spear, stabbed it through their chest, and used Stormbreaker to nail the herald to a a planet so hard that the planet exploded

>Our Solar System is dying, quick lets have literally years of experimenting on gladiators to get a perfect protector the explosion will wait until we get one or two that are right, I mean after all what's the possibility that one man would die when we could use these few hundred or so to be constantly vigilante

Say, would a spell like "turn Superman into a regular human" work?

THIS. You have to be SPECIFIC when fighting Superman with magic. If you cast a fireball spell at him, SURPRISE, it isn't going to hurt him because all you're doing is creating fire and throwing it at him. His Kryptonian physiology is going to block it.

Now if you cast "burn Superman's flesh", then yes, that will hurt him.

Yes, but Kryptonite would just be easier to use desu.

>Trusting a dozen substandard heroes instead of one ultimate hero.

There's a reason the US Army never wins fights against Superman.

You could just cast a death spell on him. But death spells usually come with a price.

"Put Green Kryptonite in his lungs" would do some shit.

could the Phantom Stranger pick up Thor's hammer? What would Thor's Lightning do to Billy Batson? What would happen if Doctor Fate and Doctor Strange got into a magick-off? Could Zatana fuck up Scarlet Witch?

>Phantom Stranger
He's Judas, so no
>Billy Batson
I get the feeling Mjolnir wouldn't like Billy's immaturity, despite his good intentions. Moreover, I think its magic mixed with the living lightning of Shazam wouldn't blend well.
>Doctor Fate vs Doctor Strange
Evenly matched, probably would be professions to one another too
>Zatanna vs Scarlet Witch
I don't even know how Wanda works

I thought he just wasn't immune to magic. Like, if something is enchanted to 'cut' it'll cut him, but otherwise if it's just an electrified hammer and you try to bash him with it you might as well be using a crow bar.

A hit from Mjolnir probably gauges the same as a punch from Shazam

>But death spells usually come with a price

You haven't met my friends...

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Well it's a hammer made from uru-metal, which is borderline indestructible, being swung at him by a metahuman with super-strength. He'd still probably feel it.

I kind of wonder if that's true. Anybody got pictures and feats?

>He's Judas, so no
Depends on the Continuity
>I get the feeling Mjolnir wouldn't like Billy's immaturity, despite his good intentions. Moreover, I think its magic mixed with the living lightning of Shazam wouldn't blend well.
Billy no, Captain Marvel, yes. I mean, after all despite Billy's immaturity he was pure enough to become the defender after the failure of Black Adam

>Evenly matched, probably would be professions to one another too
Strange would either Deus Ex a trick out, or both would bond over artifacts.
>I don't even know how Wanda works
Does anyone?

>Billy no, Captain Marvel yes
They're the same person

by what measure? Has it ever been used on someone of the same power level of Captain Marvel? Most Marvel villains are basically enhanced human level endurance that a swing from a regular hammer that size would splatter, hell, a normal hammer is enough to splatter people.

They are but they aren't. Captain Marvel has all the magic and power and is Billy, but billy can't just gut punch a person into the sun. Billy is pure enough to be the champion of Earth, puberty aside..

Wait can Adam Warlock fucks with the hammer?

I just always assumed The Mighty Thor was the same ballpark as Shazam since they're both magical flying bricks.
He may have the wisdom of Solomon and a pure heart, but you know damn well Billy would fool around with the hammer a bit. Mjolnir might deny Billy because of experience. It's totally up to the writer, and impossible to say. The enchantment is bullshit. Way I see it, if Superman can't regularly wield Mjolnir, then neither can Billy. Actually scratch that, neither could. Mjolnir likes people willing to kill if necessary

Hackathon writing, better known as plot armor.

What would you consider "of the same power level as Captain Marvel"? Pic related happened. Usually people around Thor's level get severely hurt when he whacks them, but Sentry being Sentry he isn't really phased by anyone other than Skyfathers.

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Captain marvel is several times more powerful than new52 billy. and it's intentional, Johns really doesnt like anyone being on the same tier as supes.

During that era. Superman and Batman had massive plot armor in all crossover events involving non-DC companies.

Look lets not make this a Captain Marvel vs Shazam thing, alright? And no, that's wrong. Billy was shown to be able to knock Clark around even in that continuity

Sentry's also the literal Angel of Death, so DC-wise he's closer to the Spectre's tier than Superman's.

Marvel angels are generally shit tier. Basically just a bunch of US Agents with wings and flying powers.

Both black adam and captain marvel were nerfed, so were most gods and magic compared to the mid 90s late 2000s era. Shazam™ is just not as powerful as superman while Captain Marvel (and Captain atom too) was.