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Video Games #3428
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ITT the shittiest communities out there
Sup Forums shitting on VR without trying it
Holy shit, this game is genuinely incredible
Unlock any Legendaries lately, Sup Forums?
Steam Trade thread
Thoughts? I need a pre-DS Pokemon game to play on my hacked PSP
Are there any video games where I can commit anti-LGBT hate crimes?
Yfw they try to represent this inside a Musou
DRAGON BALL Z BUDOKAI TENKAICHI 3 AI TOURNAMENT
I know I'm not the only one
ITT : we rate eachother based on our dreamgame as described in a image
MOSAIC THREAD
ITT: We trigger Sup Forums
Never forget
Would you ever name your child after a video game character?
Can we have a serious discussion about this game for once?
Excited to play Odin Sphere Leifthrasir
Better than Persona
Why is this so fucking [spoiler]good[/spoiler]?
Hey Sup Forums, how would you make a Candlejack game? I thi
Steam Sale 2016
Why do all racing games have piss poor scenery/foliage? Is there a racing sim that doesn't look like total shit?
Legitimately no memeing when does it get good
How is this specific version of this? I haven't heard much about it
Did you buy her game, Sup Forums? She's really excited to play with you!
Who advanced level tired gamer here
Second game in the series is the best game in the series
Best character design thread
Find an objective flaw
ITT: neat character concepts wasted on shit games
Is the Ace Attorney franchise worth playing?
Both Manic and Sonia have never been in a Sonic game
Tfw consoles only come in white and black now
Momodora
Name a worse SoulsBorne area then these two I dare you
Owervatch
Sup Forumsidya draw thread
What are Sup Forums's thoughts on this?
CEO thread
There will be a new Pikmin game. Let's talk about it
Game with good character creators
Scene that isn't meant to be funny
Final boss is literally literally you
What was Sup Forums's reaction this?
Deus EX GOTY
Aleksandra is the best girl
Smash 4 @ CEO - FINALS TIME
Zero Time Dilemma thread
Are there any games where you play as a animal? When I say that I mean a ACTUAL animal, not a humanoid one
Who is the best non-protaganist character in Resident Evil and why is it Sheva Alomar?
Which Neptunia is the best? I want to try the games...
TFW just finished college
VA-11 HALL-A
What other FPS' have beam weapons?
So, future or despair?
Filename Thread
Draw your last pathetic card so i can end this Sup Forums
Multi-billion dollar research facility
When will the VR meme end?
Sony bans user for using his real name
Is there a Pyramid of Taste for video games?
What is the best class in RPGS and why is it Monk?
Console Fag
Be honest Sup Forums, you only dislike the game because he's in itand you only hate him because he's you
Sup Forums claims the level design in MGSV is forgettable and bad
ITT : Shows that'd make great TellTale games
ITT: Badass, non-sexualized female protagonists
RIP PS Vita
Have crossovers ever worked in games, or are they all just silly bullshit?
Is it possible to jury rig this game into working with Keyboard and Mouse on Dolphin?
Can i get some poor kid stories?
About to buy this on steam, any recommendations which ones to play where to start ect?
I got this game as part of the steam sale and what the fuck, it's the most frustrating piece of shit I've ever played...
I'm playing through RE4 again because it's only 7 bucks on the steam sale and I've run into this dilemma...
Expectations and wishes for the soon-in-development VtMB2?
Ctrl+f
AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
CEO 2016 - Sm4sh Top 8
How does Adam Jensen wash his hair? I mean, the dude has metal hands with open joints in them
So it's pretty much confirmed that Spyro 3 > Spyro 1 > Spyro 2 is the official ranking order?
Daily reminder that the greatest video game of the decade was 100% created by white people...
Censor game
How?
Do you play as a boy or a girl in video games?
Riddle me this Sup Forums
Miss me yet?
I remember back in 2006 when I had the shittiest Internet. A ~1GB file would take literal HOURS to download...
Game that protects trolls and retards and everyone that actively does the opposite of trying to win
Second Life
What are some games where I can be BRITISH?
Could this have the potential to be the greatest rpg of this generation considering what they did with the witcher 3?
95% of friends from high school have "grown out" of video games
Admit it Sup Forums you've never beaten halo 2 on legendary
Does the GBA have the greatest handheld library of all time?
Here user, you can have this robot, I don't need her anymore
What's your honest opinion about girls love in the video games?
30 fps for $60
I gave money for Mighty Number 9
Can we have a JRPG thread?
Bloodborne killer
I want to fuck Jill
It was free once, it should be free forever!
Is there going to be a fangirl/fujoshi renaissance once KH3 is dropped?
Anyone else feel sad that visual novels will never become a thing in the west? like for companies to bring it over
Sup Sup Forums...
5K06L-FZL8A-A0DG7
Game has deep gameplay mechanics
ITT: already forgotten games
You pre-ordered their game right?
HI DANIEL MY NAME IS CONNOR!
KILLER INSTINCT THREAD
If you want to play a Mario RPG, just play Mario and Luigi
Can we talk about dedicated emulation consoles/handhelds?
Smash 4 @ CEO
Who would win in a fight, a whirlpool (big) vs 1000 rushing soldiers with a lucio (dangerous)?
Shovel Knight Thread:
Should Todd Howard kill himself? He's ruined fallout and the elder scrolls and he's a filthy Manlet
Don't mind me, just posting best vidya girl of the last 10 years
ITT: Stupid achievements
Name my Paladin Sup Forums
Has there ever been a videogame character you couldn't stop thinking about?
Vidya faps
Just bought this game on sale cause I loved Dark Souls 1
Summer Lessons is never getting a western release
Post hero ideas
Ape Escape thread
Why are bethesda games so expensive this year?
0/10 games
Just finished the original MML
Is this the worst Steam Sale ever?
What if Bethesda gave obsidian the elder scrolls to do with as they pleased? Would it be worth playing again?
Which GTA V radio station is objectively the best and why is it Radio Mirror Park?
Go ahead. Post some better gamer fuel. I dare you
ITT: The last good game of their respective series
You guys wanna talk about our favorite indie games?
MOSAIC THREAD
Musou games : Plague or cancer?
Where should the next fallout game take place?
What's objectively the best Touhou game?
Complete the game without dying
Poorfag here with only $5 to spend on the steam summer sales. is terraria a good buy...
Reggie on Zelda/East vs West
Vote kick on you for no reason
BGO Board Game Online thread
Is there any vidya apparel you would wear in public? i can't think of any
I can't wait to see her beat Superman's ass at the end of Injustice 2. Anyone agree?
NERF
Some news on the lore of No Man's Sky
Nuclear Throne
15%
Would you
Best Monster Hunter?
How in the fuck was I supposed to know that a second gargoyle would just show up out of nowhere and one shot me with...
"Speed running" games is gay as fuck. Rushing the levels, and finding glitches, and skipping frames...
What's her fucking problem? Why is she so evil?
So how do you guys feel about the Soul of Cinder boss fight all in all? did you guys like the fight, mechanics...
Same Voice Actor thread
Sm4sh Sup Forumskend thread
Do you want the next Metroid game to be 3d or 2D?
Procedurally generated content
Prequel game where final boss of the first game is the protagonist
Post smash 4 mains and tell other anons what kind of person they are based on mains. I'll start
This is a pantyshot. It is a very pleasing sight
Sup Forums tells you a game is good
Souls killer
I NEVER FELT LIKE
Lose game
Which Kirby is best Kirby Sup Forums?
ITT: mediocre games carried by a fantastic soundtrack
What games are some of the most shameless DLC fiends?
50% off on Steam
PC ISSUES
Can we please talk about what I consider to be the best game for the WiiU?
What do you think about Uppers?
SMASH 4 @ CEO - FINAL DAY
Steam Sale 2016
Where were you when Arma 3 won the graphics wars?
Just bought Overwatch last night. Why is she so best girl?
People still playing this broken game
Your favorite video game
Is there a game with PvP balance this horrible?
Mfw PCfags will never, EVER get GTA V
Well Sup Forums?
Hey guys. You want a leak?
Breath of the Wild
Trip is cute! CUTE!
ITT cancelled games you still want
Steam sale advice and rate thread CONTINUED
Tell me games where my fists are the deadliest weapons
Hyrule Warriors - Link's Awakening DLC Details
Steam trading sale
How to balance Overwatch
WAIT A MINUTE
What is the Sup Forums equivalent of this?
Pic related is on a very reasonable sale, £5.99. Is it worth it? Is it gud?
Could this be the worst steam sale yet?
You are now the boss of a video game. What is your theme music?
What games do you think Tupac Shakur would play?
Do you enjoy local multiplayer?
It's another one of those threads
Was this a good boss fight?
How does Sup Forums feel about Hideo Minaba's art style?
Essential Comfycore
Okay so how would you like fallout 5s story turn out...
Thinking about playing through the Final Fantasy series, having never played one. How does the first game hold up...
Berserk musou game
Why is this shit so boring?
How did Ryan even build a city underwater?
If you can only play one game from each system and never play on that system ever again, what game would you play?
WHERE DO I PRE-ORDER THIS SHIT ITS NOT ON THE PSN STORE. GOD EATER THREAD BITCHES
I like DmC better than the original Devil May Cry
What do you hate the most about Blizzard?
Is La Mulana the game that set the bar in its genre too high...
Opinions, Sup Forums?
Bloodstained
What will Nintendo have to do with the NX to get you to own one?
Was he right?
Modern Warfare 2
Have you ever noticed how Dota 2 fags cant take any form of criticism for the game
Pitch ideas for TF3
Vita thread
Frustrated Gaming
You now remember maplestory
What do you think of Minecraft?
On sale for 11 Britbucks. Is it worth it Sup Forums?
What do you all think of Dragons Dogma?
The DW series has hype music
I've never played an MMO game. What am I missing on?
Go to finally buy console for some exclusives
You are on your way to the toilets to take a huge shit when you feel a blinding white light engulf you
Mighty No.9
Is Nintendo the Apple of videogames?
FALLOUT 4 HELP
THE TECHNOMANCER
ITT: Fuck you, I liked it
Bought this on a wim without knowing anything about it. What can I expect ?
Genres
You're going on vacation for a few months and can only take one to fulfill your gaming needs
Father has brown eyes
3 > 1 > 2
Here's that gameboy you wanted
Daily Reminder
Is this accurate, Sup Forums? What movies are missing?
I am a Hanzo main and I will pick him whenever I damn well feel like
How do I into Rooster Teeth?
So how will it be?
ITT post and rate steam carts, lets have a fun and honorable discussion
I feel like I should be conquering the world instead of playing video games
Help
Halo 4 felt more like Halo than this
Just saw this preview for the Technomancer
How is Junkrat so tall... I thought he was a twink
I want bungie to make another halo game
Titanfall release date
I don't care much about modern anime, idols or fire emblem, but I do like good JRPGs is TMS good?
So, why don't you main the best character in nuclear throne?
Which one?
Well, Sup Forums?
Everyone here is throwing away their lives for nothing but mindless entertainment
Why does the Fantasy Genre need inclusion and multiculturalism?
What is the best tactical game?
Post your gaming buddies, Sup Forums. Pic related is mine
Step 1: Post a picture of something
Atelier Sophie
LOL
/dangeru/ thread
Sup Forumsidya draw thread
ITT: The most underrated Castlevania
What is the point of the Poison type? It's easily the worst type
3 Games
Cosplay Thread
Put tits and hips on everything
Tell me Sup Forums why aren't you learning Japanese?
CLASSIC ACE OF SPADES GET IN HERE
What's so bad about FF XIII...
If you want to discuss New Vegas in this thread you must know the password
Hold there, Sir! I have noticed that thou hast not already pre-ordered thy definitive edition of Skyrim...
ITT: Games that died within a year of their release
Splinter Cell Conviction is the best game in the series
Umbrella Corps 2 out of 10
When did video games get really shit or is it just my imagination?
Which game clients do you have on your PC?
Can we have one more of the mirroring game boxes thread?
Zero Time Dilemma
Check Steam sales
ITT: bad game design
The witcher started moralfagging so I had to kill her
"Oh, hey user. I'm beat. Think I could use your face as my seat?"
Subnautica
What is the best Overwatch girl and why is it Tracer?
Is this the Wildstar of MOBA's?
Sup Forums, you pretty pretty like feminine fuckboy now you attract other fuckboys to my restaurant...
What went so right?
PS3 vs XBox 360
Choose your character
What sound does a Thwomp make?
ITT: Games with QTEs done right
What does Sup Forums think of Pillars of Eternity?
When will they finally make her not ugly?
Picture below your post is your Steam profile pic for one week
Here user, this is your DPS tonight
Stop Right there!
Shitty no.9
What's goo-ing on in this thread? (Slurp)
Typemoon
Going in blind
So...This actually happened to me yesterday
Xeno general
Sm4sh @ CEO - Final Day!
What's the gaming equivalent of putting mustard on steak? playing AAA games on consoles?
Just installed this. What should I expect?
What is the most beautiful game you ever played?
CEO thread
Favourite armors in video games
Rolf Duel
How do we cure Smashfags?
Why did he turn to evil?
It seems sony has turned off support for large ps3 games on psn like yakuza 5 which is only playable on psn...
"Console players are generally less accurate than PC players"
Sup Forums
THIS IS PEQUOD
Why do people shit on this game so much I enjoyed it a lot and in my opinion it had more memorable/original quests than...
Games that introduced online to you
C'mon Sup Forums, we need to finish creating the Nigra-Jew known as "Playerisgay"
What went right?
Ask a black man anything you wish about video gmaes
LMFAO
What's the Neon Genesis Evangelion of Vidya?
At what age did you grew out of your habit of playing many games for like couple of hours or so and then never...
Steam sale advice and rate thread
ITT: You post your favorite game
ITT games that were so bad that you feel angry at wasting your time just trying it out after pirating it/buying and...
ITS HAPPENING!
Vidya cosplay thread
Outrun music
I never owned a Wii or Gamecube
What game do you constantly get back in to?
Thoughts?
Comfy Zelda: Breath of the Wild
Post your PS4 or Xbox One collection
Why is this shit allowed?
Official Game Art Thread
STALKER
Why is he called Irish?
Oddball, KoTH, Headhunter, Race, Regicide, Extraction, Juggernaut when?
[ ] TELL ME A STORY
It's really not hard
You didn't bully Maria
LMAO
What's your family opinion about games you play in front of them?
About to pull the trigger on my real life build of Shepard's apartment. Any thoughts on this...
GTA "GAYS ARENT NICE" VICE CITY
Clipboard
LOL
Do you prefer original or remake?
Is this the best magical strategy game of all time?
Just bought, about to start for the first time
Will this have better gameplay or only better graphics? If just graphics, that's not really worth $60...
$1344
Buyers remorse
ITS FINALLY CANON
Concept art of character/environment looks great
Post the last three games you played and have your taste rated. No cheating
Tfw the creation of the word 'edgy' meant the death for all characters that are cool, dark and gritty
How would you fix her, Sup Forums?
"Videogames aren't art"
Wolfenstein: The New Order or Doom?
What went wrong?
New thread since old one died
HOLY FUCK -- NEW GTA V DISCOVERY
Itt: your favorite videogame movie
Well Sup Forums?
What are some underrated and overlooked games that are on sale right now?
Select quick play
Reggie telling Matpat to "git gud" about motion controls
Finally finished the shit heap that was Dark Souls 2 (though the dlc was alright)
Games with intentional glitches
Hey Sup Forums, I'm playing England
Was Sonic ever a good game or it's all just nostalgia factor...
Score card
This was the president of the United States
Mousou
Is he right?
YOU FUCKING NIGGER
Fallout 4 season pass
Which valkyria is best valkyria?
I'm glad that piracy is finally over
Hey user, why don't you come to us? You know what to do, don't you?
Here we go
Xenoblade Chronicles X
Why did people love this piece of garbage so much?
What's the best kart racing game, Sup Forums?
Why do half of pre-2010 games on Steam crash and never run? Why is Steam so shit?
Will it be good Sup Forums?
This is a legendary scottish warrior woman and martial arts teacher
What game do you think that is released today, will still be remembered in the next century? (2100s)
Would it worth it to upgrade my graphics from Intel integrated to nVidia GTX 970 just to play Doom 4...
Ugh! how can they get away with this, has Japan got a pervert culture?
What's your favourite video game quote? Provide person that said the quote please
Nintendo Fatigue
Ingame model is thin
This is a world worth fighting for!
Apparently Meleefags were booing Guilty Gear because they wanted Melee at CEO
Now you may be guessing, 'oh thats an early in
Why have they been so terrible lately?
Press any button to continue
Game let's you skip a section if you fail enough times
Steam is kill
Peach looks so soft and huggable
What would happen to the industry if Nintendo and SONY merged?
Why the fuck is this allowed?
Name a fun game that has no storytelling in it
What would you do with Hiro?
Persona 5
ITT
FIRE IN THE _____
Gunther's in that room, remember __________
DURR RACISTS COMPLAINING ABOUT COVER
Can someone explain to me the logic behind America censoring or removing nudity in 18+ games?
What's the best game engine right now?
Which ist the best???
What went wrong?
What's the most fitting clan to roleplay a serial killer?
Loved Arkham Knight, never played the original two Rocksteady Arkham games. Their remasters are coming out next month...
Can we have a hidden gem steam sale thread?
Nier Automata
Why did this trigger Sup Forums?
Is this worth buying? Or should I wait?
Wii u
What went wrong?
Got bored of this in December. Is it worth picking up again? lost my save so i'll be starting over
Legs
That one multiplayer game you used to adore that's either dead now or gone down the shitter in some way
Hey bro, buy this early access pre-alpha open world survival game and play with us
Is this game worth getting? Are there a lot of players?
New minecraft update is out
Start playing DS2
This is what immersion looks like, take notes
Todd Howard
Hey nerd, better have that gameboy by next class
Overwatch Play of the Game Thread
Help me name my Mother 3 characters
Mods are still asleep post skeletons
Vidya things we will never know the truth of
This better literally be the saviour of PC online multiplayer FPS with:
PS4k TO MURDER PC GAMING
RX 480
Dragon Quest thread? Dragon Quest thread. Now that VII has been confirmed September for western 3DS release...
Need a phone to trade on steam
So tell me Sup Forums, how do you deal with your WASD-Syndrome?
"Mercy: This is not what I intended for you, Reyes
Tutorial tells you to "experiment" instead of describing gameplay features
Why did this trigger Sup Forums?
Are the new Tomb Raider reboot games any good?
So why are the servers empty and nobody's playing this game? It's amazing...
It says here you're only previous work experience is making "let's plays" on youtube
Nerf this fucking bitch, holy shit she's so fucking annoying!
Is it just me or this should've had a bigger sale...
Give a good reason on why you are not switching from street fighter to kof once it comes out
It is a good life we lead, brother
OVERWATCH LOOKALIKE
So what the fuck...
This game needs a remake so bad
It says here you are hyped for the next Sonic game. Care to explain?
CTRL F
Divinity: OS: EE pros/cons
I just finished watching Blade Runner and i have a terirble need for Cyberpunk
CHOOSE YOUR CHARACTER
Soldier: 76: Your mother would've been proud of you
2 days until the weebacolypse
Is this the start of a new age of western AAA anime games?
Can we have a thread for recommending decent games at higher than normal discounts?
Mosaic thread: Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE
>>342818221
So we can all agree these are the minimum acceptable refresh rates for various genres in 2016?
What's the best Rayman game?
Steam Summer Sale Official Thread #69
Sup Forums, what are you favorite "dying a slow and horrible death but still kicking" games?
MODS ARE ASLEEP POST Skeletons
Are you hyped for Mafia 3? Graphics and facial animation look insane
What was the first AAA game to use the F word?
Game Dev thread
Let's have a GPU thread. Looking forward to anything? Anyone planning to get the RX480?
3DS hax'd
I bought a GTX 960 from my friend for 150 bucks, and gave my old card, a GTX 770, to my brother...
How are monks supposed to fight people with weapons? You can't block a sword with your arm
Kids are asleep. Sony thread
You better of bought my game, you dolt !!
Currently downloading
ITT: Great games you can run on a toaster
ITT: top tier video game girls
Breath of the Wild Princess Zelda will never be this beautiful
Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE: Restoration Edition
How would you rank the doom series?
47
Why does the sun go on shining
Mods are asleep post Senrans
What characters would you like to see in Skullgirls 2?
"OH MY GOD IT'S SO SLOW!"
Space Games
This is probably going to be the first expansion im not going to get
I live in a aus how can i get this on steam
WARNING: you have been playing for 2 hours continually
Holy shit
Just finished this
Enough with the joking around
So... why the fuck do you guys not like this game?
Make some friends at new job
Help Donkey Kong get his banana back!
JRPG game
Who would win?
If there was a game built around the concept of custom-built player vehicles of any size and with any amount of players...
Ywn play Mafia II for the first time ever again
ITT: Describe a video game badly and others try to guess it
Hel me out anons
You are encumbered and cannot run!
WEBM THREAD!
STANDING
Is this the most overrated game in the past five years?
Why didn't you listen Sup Forums
Dark Souls will never be a comfy open world RPG
Shovel Knight with an Assault Rifle
Try to equip or dress like guts in every game even remotely possible
Shovel Knight Dev Wants Opinions On What To Make Next
Why do people hate Sonic again?
Choose your ally wisely, Sup Forums
FIVE HUNDRED AND NINETY NINE US DOLLARS
BETTER
Meanwhile, on UnderBBS Sup Forums
If you look up the word "retard" in the dictionary...
3x3 thread
DEMON-SPAWNED WRETCHES !
Single threads about a particular video game are getting deleted
Fuck this game in its stupid fuck face
ITT: Games that only hipsters like
Japanese games
I'm going to Kill myself if Trump doesn't win
Have you ever replayed any Humongous games as an adult?
ITT, we post our favorite secrets, hidden content, and cut content...
ITT: videogame characters who you could probably beat in a fight
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this pairing
Street Fighter
Steam summer sale discussion
Games whose artstyle got butchered
New Zero Time Dilemma thread
How come Tracer is the least popular girl when she is the star of Overwatch?
Just ordered this game, what can I expect?
Why did Nintendo give Samus a nigger as in ZM?
People still actually play this broken game?
This is a Japanese king
Got your wallet Sup Forums, and the only way to get it back is to buy my game
Leeroy Jenkins
What do you think of Yuri?
This isn't even my final form
Time to play Duraguno Quwesto Sixu
Release on March 10
ITT: Video game characters you relate to
Alright i bought it and played through the tutorial
Where were you when Splatfest got real?
4.2 MILLION DORRA
How does it feel being a wageslave while people are making many times more than what you make streaming video games and...
Steam Summer Sale
What happened to the community?
Hey Sup Forums. After I saw the new GoW teaser, and how disappointed I was with it...
Breath of the Fire
Why dont you play csgo you idiot?
Poorfag here, just wondering if any richfag is willing to gift me saints row 2, Its only $2.50 right now
Video games are the single most pointless invention ever made by people
Purse Owners
What are some games that will make me feel happy after I just bawled my eyes out
Do you think Mafia 3 will flop or actually be good?
What does Sup Forums think of Team Fortress 2?
Hehe, there's something on your dress
There are anons who died before mgsv came out waiting for its release
The kart game was shit
Not even trying to meme here, he needs a serious quality of life adjustment
Is it still too early?
Kirby thread disappears before I could make my post about how to make the best Kirby game
Are we in agreement?
Melee texture hacking thread
What is VA-11 Hall-A: Cyberpunk Bartender Action like?
Pixel art thread. Now
LET IT OUT
Last threads
New Social Fap Thread
Miscellaneous
Quads in thread: I push the lever, cut off my dick
Miscellaneous
This my cat Mousey say something nice
Miscellaneous
Be me 18 y/o Turk living in Germany
Miscellaneous
What loli part is best loli part?
Miscellaneous
Op here of kristin ama
Miscellaneous
New FB IG VSCO
Miscellaneous
It's Caturday, post cats
Miscellaneous
Got a girl solidly passed out on my couch in my apartment, wat should I do to her anons?
Miscellaneous
I love being a stripper. I make $300+ a day (after tip out), I can come to work and leave whenever I please...
Miscellaneous
Rekt. Lets do it
Miscellaneous
Wwyd thread be brutal as you want
Miscellaneous
Whats the best way to insult a german
Miscellaneous
YLYL. :D
Miscellaneous
Does the busdriver notice if i steal
Miscellaneous
FB/IG/VSCO 4
Miscellaneous
COMPUTER SCIENCE MAJOR???? WHICH ONE
Miscellaneous
Hot for teacher thread: candids preferred or in general clasroom pics; only real teachers pls
Miscellaneous
Texas thread. Bonus for 903
Miscellaneous
If you were paid 200000 a year to be permanently naked- would you? You would have full immunity to any legal trouble...
Miscellaneous